The bloody red Sophronitis coccinea

[smweaver]

Mauro, that's a depressing story. But I think that we, as orchid growers, are at least partially to blame for this type of behavior. If there was no market for that species of sophronitis, then they would still be enjoying life in their natural habitat instead of garnering awards for orchid growers all over the world.

Right now on EBay there's a seller who's auctioning off established plants of a newly-discovered dendrobium species from China. Since the species was only discovered within the last year or so, I had a bad feeling about how this guy could have so quickly been able to offer fully established adult plants. So I emailed him and asked to see a picture of the plants. He sent back a few photos and included the unsolicited comment that there was no need to worry about them being established or healthy full-grown adult plants since they are being collected with the pieces of bark they've been growing on simply stripped from the habitat in their native Yunnan Province. I wrote back to him and asked if he would be able to provide appropriate CITES documentation and import permits. Not surprisingly, he has so far chosen not to respond. I'm tempted to write to EBay and inform them that it seems highly improbable that these plants were legally obtained. But I also think that I might be wasting my time. As long as there are growers who are willing to ignore unpleasant details about a plant's origins, the seller of that plant will always be able to find a willing buyer, especially if that buyer resides in an affluent area of the world where instant gratification often seems to be taken for granted as a natural right.

It is certainly a beautiful plant and bloom that you have. Would you mind providing some cultural information, please? Thanks!

Steve

[Rosim_in_BR]

Originally Posted by smweaver

Mauro, that's a depressing story. But I think that we, as orchid growers, are at least partially to blame for this type of behavior. If there was no market for that species of sophronitis, then they would still be enjoying life in their natural habitat instead of garnering awards for orchid growers all over the world.

Right now on EBay there's a seller who's auctioning off established plants of a newly-discovered dendrobium species from China. Since the species was only discovered within the last year or so, I had a bad feeling about how this guy could have so quickly been able to offer fully established adult plants. So I emailed him and asked to see a picture of the plants. He sent back a few photos and included the unsolicited comment that there was no need to worry about them being established or healthy full-grown adult plants since they are being collected with the pieces of bark they've been growing on simply stripped from the habitat in their native Yunnan Province. I wrote back to him and asked if he would be able to provide appropriate CITES documentation and import permits. Not surprisingly, he has so far chosen not to respond. I'm tempted to write to EBay and inform them that it seems highly improbable that these plants were legally obtained. But I also think that I might be wasting my time. As long as there are growers who are willing to ignore unpleasant details about a plant's origins, the seller of that plant will always be able to find a willing buyer, especially if that buyer resides in an affluent area of the world where instant gratification often seems to be taken for granted as a natural right.

It is certainly a beautiful plant and bloom that you have. Would you mind providing some cultural information, please? Thanks!

Steve

What is particularly sad in this Sophro case is that The Serra do Mar, a long mountain chain bordering the Atlantic Ocean, including this particular area, is a State protected Park, an area for environmental conservation for the future generations. Removing any orchid from these habitats is a Federal offense that subjects the infractor to be immediately arrested without the benefit of answering for his/her crime in freedom... only on the paper! Never heard of anybody arrested for illegally removing orchids from protected areas.
Stories like these and the one you tell are dramatic. But, I tend to partially agree with you about us, amateur orchid growers, being responsible for that in some extent by creating a market for these plants. If you allow me, I would put this in other words saying that we, as human beings, are to blame for that and I include the non-orchid growers. You see, these flowers are attractive not only for us, collectors; we, actually, buy seed raised plants mostly and are too few compared to the number of people who buy orchids. Wild orchids. One example: we have Indian people that live in the State protected Park I mentioned. They are the only people who are allowed to make their living from the forest resources, because they were here when we came. They know what to extract from the forest: orchids. They offer flowered wild plants alongside the roads, and who buys them? Common people, attracted by the flowers, non-orchid growers mostly, in short!
Anyway, I have no illusions about a satisfactory solution being worked out someday, but we can contribute, we can do our share by educating people whenever we can.

[Sun rm.N.E.]

Your flower is strikingly beautiful. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I never knew it was so prolific in any one location.

[Cookiemonster]

That story is very tragic Mauro- and unfortunately anywhere that man treks destruction is bound to follow.
I was watching a video on youtube of tourists going to some undisclosed region in Brazil looking for walkerianas- the trees were completely covered in these beauties, I can only hope they left everything behind as they found it.
I had also read a story online about Phrag Kovachii in Peru- and how certain mountains were covered in them and nothing was to be found
New Orchid Species Leaves Admirers Amazed - The New York Times

Pollenatrix: Phrag. Kovachii sites in Peru destroyed

I guess my question to you would be if something is being exploited is it best to just let things run its course or take a piece and conserve the specie?

On a site note Soph Coccinea is incredibly beautiful

[trdyl]

What a tragic story. Some people just can not stop themselves from trying to make a quick buck and destroying everything in their path to get it.

[Bolero]

It's one of the nicest coccinea flowers I've seen. It is a shame this has happened and if people don't demand wild plants then they would still be around. Something to remember when we buy plants, make sure they are not found in the wild but have been bred in captivity.

[orchideric]

Phragmipedium kovachii grows in a protected forest, the Bosque Alto Mayo, as well.

Despite the indictment and guilty pleas of the Marie Selby Botanical Gardens and their former horticulturist Wesley Higgins, I have it on impeccable authority that wild collected seedlings were for sale at the World Orchid Conference in Miami in addition to the smaller, artificially propagated seedlings. Nobody said "Boo" because, of course, everyone wanted to buy the wild-collected plants. What does it take to instill the fear of god into people? For the record, I wasn't there.

Eric Hansen really did nail the subject with his book title 'Orchid Fever' - the look in people's eyes when they reject all rational thought in pursuit of what they want. Nothing gets between a grower and the plants they want and feel they have an inalienable right to own immediately.

Eric

[Bolero]

Originally Posted by orchideric

Phragmipedium kovachii grows in a protected forest, the Bosque Alto Mayo, as well.

Despite the indictment and guilty pleas of the Marie Selby Botanical Gardens and their former horticulturist Wesley Higgins, I have it on impeccable authority that wild collected seedlings were for sale at the World Orchid Conference in Miami in addition to the smaller, artificially propagated seedlings. Nobody said "Boo" because, of course, everyone wanted to buy the wild-collected plants. What does it take to instill the fear of god into people? For the record, I wasn't there.

Eric Hansen really did nail the subject with his book title 'Orchid Fever' - the look in people's eyes when they reject all rational thought in pursuit of what they want. Nothing gets between a grower and the plants they want and feel they have an inalienable right to own immediately.

Eric

And of course that also applies to wild animals of course. It's a very sad state of affairs. I don't know what anyone actually gains by having a wild plant - can anyone tell me?

[orchideric]

Dear Bolero,

There is an odd persistent mystique that wild-collected plants are better. There may be a twinge of truth with some of the historic clones having virus. But of course that was before people understood that you can raise plants from dry seed and eliminate any viral load. This also may be an artifact of plants that do not exhibit any outward evidence of virus - such as most Paphiopedilum.

Alas, every once in a while a plant comes along that reinflames the myth. A plant like Cattleya skinneri 'Hettie Jacobs' FCC/AOS which was wild-collected and not derived rom a select seed strain. So people would rather import 30 wild-collected plants because hey "might" get a good one rather than raise half a dozen select seedlings.

People are silly and self-centered.

Eric

[Rosim_in_BR]

Originally Posted by Cookiemonster

.......

I guess my question to you would be if something is being exploited is it best to just let things run its course or take a piece and conserve the specie?

On a site note Soph Coccinea is incredibly beautiful

This has no easy answer, you know, Suzie, but a few things must be considered: at first, law must be respected at any price. If the law says orchids cannot be removed from their natural protected areas, then all we have to do is obey, end period. If you find a good plant that you think deserves to be introduced in domestic cultivation, then there are legal ways to collect it, always under the legal surveillance. Is it a difficult process to legally follow? Yes, it is, on purpose, but the door exists.
On the other hand, there are laws that assure land proprietors to put virgin forests down to exploit any kind of agro-business. The same laws establish a certain percentage of the area that can be deforested, but farmers 9 times out of 10 do not obey the law and clean the entire property. What to think about this? Should one go and get the orchids for conservation? Hard to decide, because here there is the private property question and entering is invasion. So, if, on one hand, State controlled forests have their orchids protected by law preventing you from collecting, on the other hand private property containing forests also are impeditive... tricky isn't it?
It is heartbreaking to see how easily entire forests containing large populations of orchids, bromeliads and so many other attractive or medicinal plants are swept out to give place to pasture! It is something insane to substitute a complex, auto-balanced eco-system by grass... miles and miles and miles of nothing more than... grass!!! So, the feeling that we could do something to help conservation is natural, but we must act according to the law, and this not always is an easy way!