Cattleya mesquitae - Orchid Board

Rosim_in_BR · #1 07-12-2009, 05:15 PM

This was described as a natural hybrid between C. nobilior and C. walkeriana that occurs in the State of Goias, Brazil. Opinions vary a little as to whether it would really be a hybrid or a separate species because it is common in the wild, in the sense that it was found a uniform population.
This guy in the photo has very good shape and besides these two flowers there are six other buds just about to open! In a week or so it is going to make quite a sight!

Jerry Delaney · #2 07-12-2009, 05:20 PM

Species or hybrid, it's stunning Mauro!!

Louise · #3 07-12-2009, 05:25 PM

Gorgeous! Great flower and growing!

nenella · #4 07-12-2009, 05:28 PM

WOW!!!!!!!!!
I agree with Jerry!
Very very nice!! Mauro, If you have the time could you try & post a photo with 'more' buds open? I agree will be more than a stunning sight!
Thankyou for showing & educating us.

Rosim_in_BR · #5 07-12-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nenella

WOW!!!!!!!!!
I agree with Jerry!
Very very nice!! Mauro, If you have the time could you try & post a photo with 'more' buds open? I agree will be more than a stunning sight!
Thankyou for showing & educating us.

It is my pleasure, Nenella! Yes, as soon as the new flowers mature I'll post the entire pot view!

Cookiemonster · #6 07-12-2009, 07:05 PM

I cant take it anymore Mauro lol
Either I move to brazil or I'm living in your GH

I hear C. Nobilor is a bit of a trickster to grow, do you do anything special for this one?

Rosim_in_BR · #7 07-12-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookiemonster

I cant take it anymore Mauro lol
Either I move to brazil or I'm living in your GH

I hear C. Nobilor is a bit of a trickster to grow, do you do anything special for this one?

Yes, Suzie, nobilior is not among the easiest ones, you bet! I've been growing my mesquitaes just the same way I grow my walkerianas (I don't give the pronounced dry period nobilior needs) and they respond very well. Very bright light is a must nevertheless, or they won't bloom!

RosieC · #8 07-13-2009, 04:05 PM

Another wonderful one

catwalker808 · #9 07-14-2009, 01:23 AM

Rosim. Very nice bloom. I frequently get into discussions with walkeriana/nobilior experts from a number of places, including your country. General physical distinctions between walkerianas and nobiliors seem to be: 1) the side lobes of nobilior overlap and cover the column, while the side lobes of walkeriana do not overlap and many times have a gap between (as your flowers do); 2) the lip of walkeriana faces downward, while the lip of nobilior protrudes forward (as your flowers do); and 3) walkeriana is normally unifoliate, while nobilior is bifoliate. The bloom spikes of both walkeriana and nobilior are usually modified growths which initially looks like a pseudobulb developing form the base of the mature pseudobulb, but which becomes a specialized flower bearing growth. Occasionally, the bloom spike emerges from the pseudobulb terminus at the base of the leaf.

We grow walkeriana very easily. I don't find nobiliar very difficult to grow, although it is quite a bit slower. I am of the opinion, from all the discussions I have heard and my observations of nobilior x walkeriana hybrids, that mesquitae is a hybrid. Your flower does bear some of the distinct characteristics of both walkeriana and nobilior ( the open side lobes and the forward protruding lip). You mention that mesquitae is also a much easier grower that nobilior alone. That could be due to the influence of walkeriana and also hybrid vigor.

In nature, walkerianas and nobiliors have differing habitats, but I believe that there are areas of some overlap. In general, the two species also have different blooming seasons. However, from my own experience, in certain years, there is an overlapping of their blooming periods. Sometimes my walkeriana blooming period of November through March can extend into April and May ... which easily overlaps part of the nobilior blooming season. So I can imagine the hybrid coming about even in nature.

You say that opinions vary about whether mesquitae is a hybrid or a separate species. Let me pin you down a little. What is your own opinion?

Rosim_in_BR · #10 07-16-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catwalker808

............. You say that opinions vary about whether mesquitae is a hybrid or a separate species. Let me pin you down a little. What is your own opinion?

I didn't go see the habitat yet, so I can't speak first hand on mesquitae . What I am saying here is just my opinion based upon flowers I saw in domestic cultivation. There clearly are two types of mesquitae: one similar to the flower in this thread and another substantially different. It is my suspicion that, though sold as natural, these flowers like mine are in fact man made hybrids between nobilior and walkeriana. That's why you see traits of both in it. On the other hand, there are another type of mesquitae, which I each time more believe is the true, naturally found mesquitae, which flowers resemble those of nobilior very closely.
So, based on reports that there exists a stable population in the wild, that this population is uniform and the individuals' phenotypes are very close to nobilior I am inclined to consider that or well natural mesquitae is some sort of nobilior variation, or well a new species to be cleared with more field researches.