Can't wait...

[ChrisFL]

To me C. nobilior is the perfect orchid, small in stature, huge flowers, incredible fragrance, highly specialized succulent growth and flowering habit. I have a small collection of seedlings from crosses that have caught my interest, including two var. coerulea. My understanding is that only one coerulea nobilior plant, ‘Suzuki’, has been found in nature. It was selfed and the offspring resulted in some coerulea cultivars now famous in Brazil and Japan (‘Papagaio Verde’, ‘Francisco’, ‘Luar do Sertao’). This plant is a first bloom seedling from a sibling cross of ‘Francisco’ and another plant from the original ‘Suzuki’ selfing. I selected this plant from F. E. Miranda’s greenhouse after spending too much time looking through the several first-bloom seedlings that were in bud. The buds survived the plane ride from Florida to Texas. Unfortunately, the buds on all the plants were too young to tell whether the flowers were going to be nice. Line breeding still has a little ways to go to get plants with exceptional form, although many of the plants coming from this cross are a huge step above the plants from the original selfing. Unfortunately, as the buds have been maturing, they have stayed relatively thin, so I'm not expecting much.

[tuvoc]

Looks good, Chris! Definitely keep us posted on their progress.

Kim

[Intruder]

I am almost sure that they will be very beautiful. In which substrate are they, pure sphagnum?

[ChrisFL]

Jan, I'd really like to find out whether the original wild caerulea mutant came from the amaliae or tipo populations, but no one I've talked to seems to know.

[ChrisFL]

Maybe 2 days left? Agonizing!

[Rosim_in_BR]

I cannot be of much help in this case. I have heard that more than one caerulea has been found (in fact at least two, one of them being from the amaliae ssp). Again, I heard this from a collector in Manaus, so I cannot do more than quote. Breeding these caeruleas seems to give reason for the more than one clone story, because the first selfings of the variety were not successful in producing caeruleas (the same thing seems to happen with the alba variety). At least one clone of this caerulea variety is long known, but remained quite rare until some sib cross could be made more recently and produce more caeruleas. I grow four different plants, all of them from different sib crosses.
On the other hand, named caerulea clones like 'Luar do Sertão', 'Athayde', 'Loboda' seem to be the same plant with different names.
Sorry if I can't be of much help.

[ChrisFL]

Mauro, thanks! That is very interesting and much more info than I have been able to find here in the United States. I have wondered whether 'Loboda' and 'Luar do Sertão' were the same plant. It seems, from the photos I've seen, that 'Francisco' and 'Papagaio Verde' are unique clones. Is the clone that is long known the 'Suzuki' clone?

I had also heard the stories that alba seedlings did not bloom out alba. I had the opportunity to buy a very expensive alba cross seedling (the first time I had such opportunity in the United States), but I had heard that they were not blooming alba, so I saved my money.

[Rosim_in_BR]

Originally Posted by ChrisFL

Mauro, thanks! That is very interesting and much more info than I have been able to find here in the United States. I have wondered whether 'Loboda' and 'Luar do Sertão' were the same plant. It seems, from the photos I've seen, that 'Francisco' and 'Papagaio Verde' are unique clones. Is the clone that is long known the 'Suzuki' clone?

I had also heard the stories that alba seedlings did not bloom out alba. I had the opportunity to buy a very expensive alba cross seedling (the first time I had such opportunity in the United States), but I had heard that they were not blooming alba, so I saved my money.

Yes, Crys, the long known is the 'Suzuki' clone. It is known at least since the 50's. The original owner also had an alba. 'Suzuki' was later sold to Mr. Loboda and then in little time the same plant had two names already 'Suzuki' and 'Loboda'. The selfings of this old caerulea clone never produced caeruleas, the same thing happening with the original alba (I tried both and both ended up being type). I've been asking around and I was assured that at least three other caerulea clones have been found in the wild and that one of them, which is in Sao Paulo State (Piracicaba City, if I am not making any mistakes) is the one which is generating these new caeruleas now available. Here we already have available the second generation of seedlings which is most likely what you have in hands too.

[kinknstein]

This is such an interesting thread! Good reading!

[ChrisFL]

Mauro, thank you! I can't tell you how great learning this is. I am very interested in this kind of orchid history, but the information you posted simply cannot be found in the United States.

Originally Posted by Rosim_in_BR

Yes, Crys, the long known is the 'Suzuki' clone. It is known at least since the 50's. The original owner also had an alba. 'Suzuki' was later sold to Mr. Loboda and then in little time the same plant had two names already 'Suzuki' and 'Loboda'.

Ah hah. Interesting. So you would say this:

http://www.orquideasalto.com.br/img/...lea_loboda.jpg

Is the plant 'Suzuki'.

I wonder if the 'Papagaio Verde' plant is from the first generation of sib crossings or another wild collected caerulea?

http://www.orquideasalto.com.br/img/...ea_papagai.jpg

I've been asking around and I was assured that at least three other caerulea clones have been found in the wild and that one of them, which is in Sao Paulo State (Piracicaba City, if I am not making any mistakes) is the one which is generating these new caeruleas now available.

Very good info. I know that this plant ('Miranda' or 'Francisco' is one of the parents being used in the second generation that is available in the United States:

http://www.orquidariopora.com/images/pics/gal_82.jpg

Here we already have available the second generation of seedlings which is most likely what you have in hands too.

I believe you are exactly correct The good thing is that I have seen a whole flask worth of plants bloom out last Spring at Francisco's nursery, and they are all caerulea.