I Suck at Cattleyas!

[hosshead]

I can get them to sheath, even to bud.... and then something goes wrong and,MOST of the time, the buds either go blasty, or the sheath goes dry and brown and the bud inside fails miserably.

ACK!


It's funny, I do pretty well with some 'chids that are reputedly tough to grow. But cats.....

ACK!!


They get BOODLES of sun all summer long don't get overwatered, I must have things right enough to get new growth and sheathing/spiking....

ACK!!!!!

ANY and all input will be welcomed.

[Tommyr]

Don't feel bad I suck at Phals. Yup, I am a phal killer! I gave up trying them.

I have a few catts sheathing now, my first reblooming for them.

[smweaver]

If the buds are blasting, my guess would be that either the humidity is too low around the cattleyas or the temperatures (especially night temps') are too high. What kind of cattleyas do you have, species or hybrids? With a few exceptions, most of the popular species (and the hybrids derived from them) like cool to intermediate night temperatures during the fall and winter months; anywhere between 54 and 58 F (12 and 14 C), in my experience, seems to suit them nicely. Can you give us an idea of what kind of environmental factors your cattleyas are subjected to in their growing area? And don't feel too disheartened by not being able to flower them--it just means that you haven't been able to flower them YET. I once read somewhere that the definition of an expert (at least as far as horticulture goes) is someone who, in the past, managed to kill at least a thousand of whatever it is that he or she is now an expert with. Good luck!

Steve

[bellini girl]

Hi Hosshead, I feel your pain. I have three that I'm labouring with right now. 2 have sheath, about 2 months now, no flower emerging yet. But I've decided to water when required and subject to benign neglect otherwise. Don't give up. I never got them to sheath in the past, so this is a step up for me and I'm reluctant to chuck the towel in so to speak. good luck

Lecent

[hosshead]

Originally Posted by smweaver

If the buds are blasting, my guess would be that either the humidity is too low around the cattleyas or the temperatures (especially night temps') are too high. What kind of cattleyas do you have, species or hybrids? With a few exceptions, most of the popular species (and the hybrids derived from them) like cool to intermediate night temperatures during the fall and winter months; anywhere between 54 and 58 F (12 and 14 C), in my experience, seems to suit them nicely. Can you give us an idea of what kind of environmental factors your cattleyas are subjected to in their growing area? And don't feel too disheartened by not being able to flower them--it just means that you haven't been able to flower them YET. I once read somewhere that the definition of an expert (at least as far as horticulture goes) is someone who, in the past, managed to kill at least a thousand of whatever it is that he or she is now an expert with. Good luck!

Steve

Types;
Well, I have MAINLY "easy" cat alliance members, like BLCs, Epicats, and LCs. A few straight up Cattleyas.
I am especially fond of the Nodosa crosses. And they do tend to be more tolerant for me.
Conditions;
During the summer,(as from end of May until the end of September), they are outside, most of them hang on a sheet of chicken wire mesh that faces southeast, so they get sun from about 6am until 4 or 5 pm and whatever rain the sky has to offer. A few sit on a bench in clay pots with VERY LITTLE medium in there, just mostly some charcoal chunks. The daytime highs range from 70's to 90's, at night we get lows in the 50's 60's 70's...humid....summer in Ohio.
I also collect rainwater in a tank that has some chicken poop and a little horse manure and some formal orchid fertilizer in there,(it all becomes a fairly dilute "orchid tea"), and, if we are droughty I drench them with that by just dunking the plant 2 times and then hang them back up to drain. They get lots of new growth and great fat white and green-tipped roots, and they produce sheaths rather well. Many times the sheaths stay this lovely pale colour but never produce buds, at other times I will get a nice budded sheath that will go brown and dry up and the bud inside withers.
Sometimes, I will get buds that make it past the sheath but then will just blast.

In autumn, everybody comes into my greenhouse, which is a cross between a Floriday-room,(has a roof instead of glass), and a glaze-house, where I have extended the south wall outward so that part has a glass sky. The cats and cyms go on benches in front of the south wall and the temps at night in there go down to the mid 50's. I have plenty of plants crammed in there to provide a fairly buoyant humidity atmosphere.
I sort of mist everything in the morning,which is when the tolumnias get theirs, I only dunk the cats when they feel quite dry among the roots, most of them are in vanda-type baskets or on placques anyway, so they don't harbour a lot of moisture to get rotty.
The water I am using is the same rainwater "tea" and I keep it inside the gh so that it is the same temp as the air in there.

So that is what I am doing with my cats.
I have a BLC Keowee that has 2 buds on one spike left, it did have 2 spikes and the buds dropped from the one.

I also have a Stlma. Kelly that has one bud remaining from a spike that started with 3.
Both of these plants have lovely new growths and green tipped roots and everybody is free of pest and disease.
I have a Cat.Percivalia,(sp) that had a FABULOUS sheath that is now brown and soggy,while the plant itself looks WONDERFUL. It's in a teak slat basket and no rot.
In the same hanger basket,(I put all my slats into groups in large hanger basket so they hang from a wire
to get full sun and drainage benefits),is a Cat.Jemanii that has a lovely, pale green sheath but no buds are apparent.
So I group my types together so they get same culture per group.
Oddly enough, I have this compot of two-bulb Cat. Int. Amethystoglossa that sit on the light shelf of my humidity table in the living room...one of them is in sheath and I had no expectation of that. I forgot i left that pot there and it's gotten the same treatment as the Rossioglossums it's been hiding behind , and that pot has some beauty little plants in there and the sheath makes me worry to move it, as they must be happy?

Okay. That is the WHOLE story of what I am doing with the Catt. orchids at my place. I hope this LOOOONG post helps the diagnosticians out there see what I am doing wrong so I can fix it.

THANKS for all the replies!!!

[Royal]

I wonder about the "tea". I know lots of growers use stuff that is of unknown nitrogen content and do fine with it. But it seems to me that if you are trying to eliminate variables, it may be wise to start using prepared fertilizer. At least then you can eliminate any concerns of nutrient deficiencies and/or toxicity - not to mention anything that chicken-poop-water may harbor or attract.

I'm not saying I know the problem, but this would be one less variable to deal with.

[hosshead]

Thanx, Royal, for your remarks.

I don't put TONS of the chicken poop in there...probly what I think maybe birds perching in a forest canopy might drop among the epiphytes, and then quite diluted with all the rain water.
I figured the "tea" was working pretty well as the plants just grow and grow and get new roots and do produce buds etc.....seem like bunch of really happy plants.
Until we get to that final stage with flowering.
Maybe I am being misled by the abundant growth these plants are doing.

I know the Stans and the Oncs. do fab with the tea....

It's a good thought. I will try that.

[smweaver]

Actually, it sounds (or reads) like you're doing everything well. Perhaps you could increase the amount of water that the cattleyas are getting. Yeah, I know. According to the great orchid bible(s), they must dry out thoroughly between waterings. But if your plants are growing in baskets or pots with little or no medium, they could probably stand to be drenched much more often than similar plants that have water-retaining material around their roots, especially if you can continuously give them that nice and sunny east/southeast orientation that you described. I believe (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if this is not an accurate statement) that C. percivaliana flowers immediately after the new growths mature (that is, it doesn't--like C. mossiae or skinneri, for example--go through a distinct rest period when it's dry for several months before it flowers). In fact, I don't think that percivaliana's dry and dormant period truly begins until just after it's done flowering. C. jenmanii, on the other hand, does experience something of a rest before it flowers. But again, like percivaliana, I don't think that it goes through a dry season until after it flowers. If both the sheaths and buds are drying out and turning brown on the hybrids, it might not hurt to increase the amount of water the plants get and perhaps reduce the amount of light that they're exposed to while the buds are forming. That probably sounds counterintuitive, because a plant that's in bud should probably want or need more light to fuel the growth of its buds. But the combination of lots of intense sunlight and rather dryish conditions at the root zone could possibly be causing the buds to dry up and die prematurely. I'll certainly be the first person to admit that I'm not an expert with cattleyas; however, the species from that genus do make up the majority of my collection and they do (with the exception of a couple of prima donnas that are close to winning a one-way vacation to the compost heap) regularly flower. So my advice would be to give the ideas you've gotten in response to your original post a try; you've probably got nothing to lose at this point. Again, best of luck.

[Royal]

smweaver, Good insights, makes sense to me.

[Brooke]

I agree with smweaver about the water. Basically your catts are mounted, outside, in sun for several hours per day. If not mounted, your pots do not have any moisture retaining media. IMHO, your plants should be watered every day when it is sunny.

C. percivaliana does not bloom until between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Sheaths should be present now but will not have buds yet. I don't give this an extended rest like some species catts but it gets much less water during the winter.

C. jenmani should be in sheath now and should produce blooms soon. I have it listed as a non-resting species, just reduced water in the winter but never dried out.

Your amesthyglossa is just being precocious and I would be surprised if you get a bloom from your two pbulb plant. If it does produce buds, they should be late winter/early spring. It is one that needs a fairly dry rest period in winter but with a seedling, I wouldn't dry it out as much as a mature plant. It also wants very high light this time of year.

Hopefully your sheaths will produce buds and they won't blast. There is nothing like a blooming catt to make you smile.

Brooke