Do you usually acquire specific cultivar of cattleya species?
Hello guys,
I have a question regarding what you usually do regarding species. If given the option do you usually buy a specific cultivar of a species? For example, a cattleya trianae var. concolor 'Orion'. Would you mind if it wasn't a specific cultivar in order to collect it afraid of having a less desirable flower?
I say this because I have seen a cattleya mossiae var. semi alba without a cultivar name almost blooming size and then another same semi alba but with a cultivar name which produces beautiful flowers but the owner says it may flower in 4-5 years… So that's kind of the debate I'm having. I am afraid of the quality of the flowes of the non cultivar one.
I think more serious collectors only go for specific cultivars but do you think non cultivar ones are worth it for you?
I am just the opposite... a named cultivar may be nice, but may also have been line-bred to the point that a pollinator would not recognize it. With species, I very much prefer the natural flowers. They have evolved to attract their pollinators, not the orchid judges, and to me that is part of their charm.
Also note, when you buy a named cultivar (species or hybrid) you are getting a clone so it is predictable (mostly). (A division of course is the same as the mother plant, but those are MUCH more expensive) A seed-grown plant will vary from individual to individual from the pod (just like children in a family with the same parents don't look identical) Again, to me that's part of the adventure.
Interesting. There are some cattleya species which differ so much from the line bred ones to the more wild ones. For example they may have much thinner petals and I usually prefer the fuller flowers but still looking just like the species. The example I have for the mossiae are these 2 different semi albas, one without a name (1st picture) and the 2nd one is a name one called Cattleya mossiae var. semialba `H&R` x self. As you can notice there are some differences.
So my debate is if its worth it to wait 4-5 years for the cultivar flowers which I really like or get an unnammed one with also beautiful flowers which may flower in 1-2 years but having the chance of getting some wonky ones instead
Actually, the 'H&R' x self isn't quite the named cultivar... it was self-pollinated so both parents are the mother plant but there can still be variation of individuals from the seed capsule. So you have a seed-grown plant from known, superior parents. This greatly increases the odds of gettting a plant similar to the parent, but doesn't guarantee not getting an "ugly duckling". This is life, not manufacturing...
I see, so for it to be the named cultivar would it have to be just the 'H&R' without the x self? And can other 'H&R' be equally seed-grown and have the chance of getting an "ugly duckling" ? Thanks a lot!
If it just says 'H&R' it would be a clone of the original (since you are not likely to be paying for a division). Many (but not all) orchids can be self-polinated (the pollen is place on a flower of the same plant). So the genetics of both "parents" of the resulting seed are the same. But with any pollination, the genes can "reshuffle", some of the individuals may show recessive traits that could be good but there could be something in the background less good. "Good" here is an aesthetic judgement. There are no certainties in life. (Even clones can get mutations)
---------- Post added at 08:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 AM ----------
In nature, the variation between individual plants is much of what drives evolution - the individuals most attractive to the pollinator are going to be the ones reproducing. And their offsping then are likely to be even more attractive to the pollinator. The concept is similar in cultivation... this time the pollinator has two legs and a toothpick, but again the individuals which get pollinated are the ones most attractive to the "pollinator" - big, round, flat flowers, for example. Probably different criteria than for the bee. It is still a process not a product.
Now I understand, this whole topic is quite complicated to understand sometimes for me haha, but I want to learn. Thanks a lot Roberta for taking the time to write all this information.
Sure! Orchid breeding (whether line-breeding species or creating hybrids) is as much art as science. Genetics are complicated, and a bit messy. One is dealing in probabilities.
My more recent approach is to (when available) purchase a flask of the species I’m after, sired by desirable parents. Kind of the best of both worlds…if you have the space to grow out and bloom a number of the resulting plants. My collection does contain a number of “classic” Cattleya hybrids, and species acquired as both clones and as original divisions (Roberta is spot on with regards to the pricing, BTW)
Do you usually acquire specific cultivar of cattleya species?
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