Transferring C. aclandiae Seedling to Basket

[galguibra]

Turns out y'all weren't kidding about that whole "well I'll just order ONE more..." problem LMAO. I ordered two new seedlings that just came in over the weekend!! One is a Z. Debbie De Mello 'Honolulu Baby' that I'm itching to try out in LECA, and the other is the star of the post: a C. aclandiae v. coerulea ('Haiku' x 'Boa Vista') that I'm hoping to grow in a shallow teak slat basket. I've already been growing a C. intermedia v. aquinii f. coerulea bare root on a cork mount for the past few months, so I'm now the very excited owner of three whole orchids






Unfortunately, the little guy doesn't seem to have any new roots on the way at the moment that I can see, and I've heard a lot about how finicky bifoliates can be about dumping roots if you repot without new roots coming in. From what I could find online, though, it sounds like C. aclandiae grows roots kinda whenever it wants as opposed to uniformly before/after putting out a new growth/bloom, so I'm not sure how long I'd be waiting on new roots or if there's anything I can do to reliably/safely induce them.

I have some seaweed spray, a root booster with lots of beneficial microbes and natural biostimulants and stuff, and a few other goodies that might help a little, but obviously that kind of thing won't make something out of nothing, and I don't wanna overuse the seaweed especially since too many hormones can throw off normal growth signalling. Would I be okay to just gently remove the seedling from the nursery net pot, plop it in a 4" basket and secure with floral wire as needed? I also have a seedling heat mat I could bring out if it would help at all.

There isn't a ton of medium in the pot to begin with and it seems pretty loose, so my intuition is that so long as the overall conditions aren't too different, it should probably be okay, since I wouldn't really be sticking those roots into anything new and there isn't a ton of bark in there with them as it is anyway. Probably I'd just remove any bark that isn't literally attached to any roots, and then any stragglers can just go in the basket too to give the existing roots a break.

That being said, I definitely wouldn't wanna gamble and lose on this one cause I know it's somewhat rare (thank goodness for flash sales, or I NEVER would've bought it lmao) and has a reputation for being fussy, but I'd be interested to hear what other people think!

[Roberta]

What's the rush? I would suggest letting the plant tell you when it's ready for a change of scenery, just leave it alone until you see root action.

[galguibra]

I'd say some amount excitement/impatience, some amount wanting to figure out how I'll have to change my grow light set-up/plant placement/furniture (I keep my plants in my room and have limited space, so accommodating the two new plants once they're out of quarantine will mean some not insignificant logistical changes), and part concern about what's going on in the nursery pot.

Because of some drama with USPS (I was told the package couldn't be delivered, then the next day that it was at the post office, then there that it was out for delivery but to the wrong address, then THERE that it had already been TOSSED over the gate the day before and had been sitting in 90°F weather ever since), it came with some fully crisped up old roots/leaf sheathes/etc that have gotten mushy with watering.

Now, I'm sure some part of me almost wants it to be a bigger deal than it probably is to have an excuse to get in there and have fun setting everything up, but I definitely don't wanna cause the plant any significant further stress unless it would actually be helpful.

I guess ultimately my question is both:

1) Would it be a significant stressor to move the orchid into a basket if there aren't any big media changes going on and I, say, just cut the nursery pot with some clippers so everything could slide right out and placed it directly in the basket? I wasn't gonna use the 2" nursery pot for anything anyway, and if the bark chips are alright after all I could even just leave them in the basket to stabilize the plant and keep the environment closer to what it's used to in the short term

2) Assuming (1) wouldn't be advisable, is there anything I can do to reliably encourage new root growth, or maybe even things I should avoid or be on the lookout for, and if not then what kind of timeline would I be looking at for a species that's known for growing roots kinda whenever it pleases

[Louis_W]

Just dont unpot it. I wont really be stressed if you drop that whole thing into a basket, surround it with medium and keep doing everything else you were doing the same. Bifoliate moping is no joke, it can last for years but i dont think the plant wil notice if you leave it alone and just drop it into the basket. In my mind that is also the advantage of semi hydro growing. The conditions in a repot are almost identical, so as long as you dont rip apart the rootball its no harm done. The old switcharoo

[Dusty Ol' Man]

Originally Posted by galguibra

Turns out y'all weren't kidding about that whole "well I'll just order ONE more..." problem LMAO.

Welcome to your new addiction. I wanted to keep my collection small (and it is compared to many others), but it soon went from 10 to 25! My wife just looks at me and shakes her head.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Louis_W

Just dont unpot it. I wont really be stressed if you drop that whole thing into a basket, surround it with medium and keep doing everything else you were doing the same. Bifoliate moping is no joke, it can last for years but i dont think the plant wil notice if you leave it alone and just drop it into the basket.

This is what I'd do as well

[orchidman77]

I agree with everyone above - drop it in a larger pot with chunky mix! It looks super happy with lots of good roots, so it should take off pretty quickly.

FYI - the spotting on your aclandiae seedling is completely natural, but it does indicate that it's probably not a coerulea (coerulea Cattleyas lack the "red" anthocyanin pigments). I believe that orchid breeders are having trouble getting a "reliable" coerulea variant of aclandiae, and many times coerulea parents are yielding inconsistent results. Sorry to burst that balloon, but it's still a wonderful species and I'm excited for you! I have an an aclandiae cross made with two alba parents, but the seedling isn't alba - the leaves are pigmented. It's about to bloom for the first time, and I'm excited to see how the flower will appear.

[galguibra]

Originally Posted by orchidman77

I agree with everyone above - drop it in a larger pot with chunky mix! It looks super happy with lots of good roots, so it should take off pretty quickly.

FYI - the spotting on your aclandiae seedling is completely natural, but it does indicate that it's probably not a coerulea (coerulea Cattleyas lack the "red" anthocyanin pigments). I believe that orchid breeders are having trouble getting a "reliable" coerulea variant of aclandiae, and many times coerulea parents are yielding inconsistent results. Sorry to burst that balloon, but it's still a wonderful species and I'm excited for you! I have an an aclandiae cross made with two alba parents, but the seedling isn't alba - the leaves are pigmented. It's about to bloom for the first time, and I'm excited to see how the flower will appear.

Wait can anybody confirm this? I'm only passingly familiar with the specific genetics, but my understanding was that there's a number of different classes of 'coerulea' mutations to the anthocyanin pathways, and that each different type lacks certain specific anthocyanins.


What I've read basically suggests that any one given anthocyanin pigment might be purple, red, blue, black, etc, and whatever combination the variant has—say, neither A nor B, but indeed C, or some other combination that excludes the more 'red' anthocyanins—will determine if the perceived flower color 'looks like' a coerulea, regardless of its parentage.


I don't have any specific info on the genetics of the parents (I tried looking up their names online, and for whatever reason I didn't get any results), so it's definitely possible they have incompatible classes of anthocyanin mutations and 'filled in the gaps' enough in the genome that the daughter orchid would have the more typical magenta phenotype. In theory, though, it should also be possible for it to have some number of intact anthocyanin-related genes enough to spot the leaf on the new growth, but to still have a 'coerulea' flower phenotype.


If anyone else here knows more about pigment genetics then please do correct me though, cause I'd definitely rather be disappointed now than later when it hopefully finally flowers

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Dusty Ol' Man

Welcome to your new addiction. I wanted to keep my collection small (and it is compared to many others), but it soon went from 10 to 25! My wife just looks at me and shakes her head.

Ahahahaha I definitely see things heading that way here too I actually first got into growing orchids because they're my partner's favorite flower, and I wanted to have lots to keep in our room together. As luck would have it though, his favorite color is purple, but SPECIFICALLY blue-purple, and red-purple he doesn't so much care for. Go figure that those would happen to be some of the rarest plants. Theoretically I'm keeping the collection small for now while I'm living in an apartment, but we'll see how well I hold out haha

[orchidman77]

Hope I didn't create a problem!

I did some digging - although I definitely don't know as much as you already about the genetics of coerulea coloration, especially in bifoliates. I looked through google images of coerulea aclandiae blooms trying to find how the new growth appeared, and some definitely show spots, like this one from SVO:

Sunset Valley Orchids - Superior Hybrids for Orchid Growers

So, I guess pigmentation in leaves/sheaths might work differently for bifoliates? With labiate cattleyas, they usually lack any spotting or pigmentation like albas. I have a coerulea Gaudii (tigrina x loddigesii) from SVO 2 years ago that has yet to bloom that will exhibit a little pigmentation on the developing growths, but I wouldn't call it red. I think the cross was done before with the same parents and yielded blue offspring. I'll have to wait and see for confirmation when it does bloom!

I do remember reading from Fred's notes to look for a "grey cast" on leaves (this implies coerulea flowers), and I've definitely seen this on my Gaudii. Maybe that's useful for aclandiae too!

Orchids never stop surprising me. I love it! And yes, you will end up with too many orchids before you know it!

[galguibra]

Originally Posted by orchidman77

Hope I didn't create a problem!

I did some digging - although I definitely don't know as much as you already about the genetics of coerulea coloration, especially in bifoliates. I looked through google images of coerulea aclandiae blooms trying to find how the new growth appeared, and some definitely show spots, like this one from SVO:

Sunset Valley Orchids - Superior Hybrids for Orchid Growers

So, I guess pigmentation in leaves/sheaths might work differently for bifoliates? With labiate cattleyas, they usually lack any spotting or pigmentation like albas. I have a coerulea Gaudii (tigrina x loddigesii) from SVO 2 years ago that has yet to bloom that will exhibit a little pigmentation on the developing growths, but I wouldn't call it red. I think the cross was done before with the same parents and yielded blue offspring. I'll have to wait and see for confirmation when it does bloom!

I do remember reading from Fred's notes to look for a "grey cast" on leaves (this implies coerulea flowers), and I've definitely seen this on my Gaudii. Maybe that's useful for aclandiae too!

Orchids never stop surprising me. I love it! And yes, you will end up with too many orchids before you know it!

No worries at all!! I definitely appreciate the input, and all any of us can ever ask is that people weigh in from the best of their experience Good to know about the grey leaf cast too, I'll be on the lookout

---------- Post added at 03:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------

Update: I've left it in the nursery pot for now based on people's suggestions, but it turns out my suspicions were correct about the rot. What I at first thought was just some dehydration was actually that the oldest and tiniest little pseudobulb in the back had actually gotten severed from the rest of the rhizome entirely, and the wound was a bit mushy/dark.

I removed the structure since it was already disconnected anyway and just floating freely in the pot, and the roots that I thought looked suspect when I first inspected the plant were indeed connected to that same pseudobulb, so they came out too. I'm fresh out of fungicide at the moment, so I dabbed at the wound with a q-tip soaked in rubbing alcohol, and then covered it with a little bit of cinnamon. Is there anything else I can do for the little guy to give him the best chance of pulling through?