Cattleya/Laelia pure indoor Culture, how important is Day/Night temp fluctuation?

[Güldner]

First of all Hi Guys, im new here.
My Name is Lukas, i come from and grow orchids in southern Germany, im pretty new to the Hobby (started in March 2023) and have a few questions i have never gotten good answers for. Thats why i am here.

So what this is about is finally getting an answer to a very important question i have. And please don’t be shy to reply, every answer is appreciated, Even if someone else allready answered the question pretty mouch the Same way you would, please still do, the more people answer the better a picture of the whole thing i will get.

It‘s about how important the temperature difference between day and Night really is for a few Cattleyas i have.

The plants i am Talking about are a Cattleya Purpurata Var.coerulea x sib, Cattleya sincorana and cattleya Xanthina.

All three plants are seedlings which will reach blooming size in 2 years (purpurata) and 3 years (Xanthina and Sincorana).

I have These growing on a northern windowsill with the Support of a growlight which has worked out pretty well (i have sucesfully bloomed a vanda 2 times with it in the last 3 months, and grown it rapidly in the last 7 months and sucesfully bloomed two epidendrums and a Colmanara).

The thing is i am pretty mouch confined to that windowsill, putting plants outside in the Summer would be a struggle if not impossible, and in Winter it‘s of course not possible here.

So my question is, can i ever Hope to make Anny of these 3 Cattleyas Bloom on a Windowsill without a temperature fluctuation between day and night? At least not a very pronounced one as about 3 to 4C (about 6-7f) is the Most i can get done in the Best case without making things very complicated.

So what im looking for here is people that have grown Cattleyas on a windowsill exclusively be it Summer or Winter or under very constant Temperatures between day and Night or know the answer to my question in General.

If i got no hope of getting them to Bloom id rather get rid of them and give them to someone who can treat them right while i get something that will work for me.

For a Bit of information, i have owned the purpurata since September 1st and i immediately Reported it, it was in a 9cm pot which it had outgrown pretty badly (it was actually Split Open from the amount of roots)and i put it in a 12cm pot. Since then it has made an insane amount of new roots (the mouch larger pot is plenty Full After just 3,5 months) then it has fully matured a growth that was halfway done back then and almost matured one that was very small back then (it‘s going to reach pretty mouch the same size the last one did by the Looks of it). It has also put on a new growth in the last few weeks that is Doing well so far.

The sincorana has done pretty mouch nothing except make a few roots since i got it (also September) Untill about 2 weeks ago when it started going Crazy and is currently making 5 new growths.

The xanthina is very new (one week) and i can’t Tell what it‘s going to do so far.

I really hope someone can help me settle this question, Id be thankfull to you for the Rest of my life if you did


Last but not least, im new to this Place, like a few minutes old, so if i did something wrong, this isn‘t the right Place to post or you got General tips for me, please Tell me Right Away, it would be mouch apreciated.

[Güldner]

As upfront Information I Posted this into a different Channel as well, should that be forbidden please don‘t kill me, im very new to this Site

[Redacted rest of this duplicate post from other site] ~ WaterWitchen, Admin/Moderator



We don't get too crazy around here with moderation.

Here's a link to the Rules and Guidelines for your convenience in case you haven't found it yet. One of the guidelines is don't post in duplicate threads. Mostly because it gets confusing, so the second thread was merged with this one.
RULES & GUIDELINES

[Roberta]

Welcome to the Orchid Board and to a fascinating hobby.
I leave it to other contributors to advise about windowsill growing of these, many members grow indoors (I don't) Your post is excellent. So no worries there. The one thing that I CAN suggest, is patience... orchid progress is measured in months and years not days or weeks. Observe your plants and you will note what works and what doesn't.

You will get some natural temperature variation through the seasons (and day/night) if the plants are near the window - it will be cooler in winter and warmer in summer even if the overall room temperature is more even. And cooler at night too. And also get light variation which is also good. What you may want to do is to get some supplemental lights to provide more day-length and more light intensity during the dark days of winter.

[bernardomantas97]

Greetings, Lukas!

First off, welcome to the board!

From my experience thus far, the temperature fluctuation hasn't had any noticeable impact on flowering (been doing this since 2021, and my growing conditions for now are pretty much the same as yours). In the winter, the overall temperatures inside are much lower than in the summer (we don't really use any heating system), and that alone seems to be enough. I have been able to bloom the few hybrids I have and even species plants; as an example, last month I had a cattleya rex bloom for the first time (you can find the post about it here on the board), and right now there's: a purpurata in bloom, a schroederae in sheath with buds developing, a quadricolor in the same situation, a trianae in sheath, a (doubtful) mossiae in sheath and a mendelii in sheath.

I'll attach some pictures, just in case you want to check it out.

Hopefully someone with more experience might give you some more insight on this topic.

[Jmoney]

as a windowsill grower for many many years, I don't think the day/night temp differential is required for flowering. a nice sunny window can flower all of those varieties, although the purpurata does require a lot of light (by indoor standards).

I do firmly believe that the day/night differential is one of the most underrated factors behind truly optimal culture. I think it is one major reason why summering plants outdoors is often so successful (as is the often better light, if diffused enough). The simple explanation is that plants store more energy with that temp drop at night. I was never able to achieve much of a differential in the home though. as Roberta said, if you can take advantage of a drafty window that will help somewhat.

[Güldner]

bernardomantas97

Thank you very mouch for your reply, that’s some beautiful orchids you have there, i wish Mine were as big allready

I have a few questions though, First of all, why do you not have a real heating System at your Home? Do you live somewhere where it‘s simply warm enough to Not Need one?

Second
So you don‘t have mouch Temp Drop as well? Just the like 6 to 7f i have or Even less? Or do you mean something Else by having the Same conditions as me?

Third is

How warm does it get in your Place in Summer? And how cold does it get in Winter? For me it‘s about a constant 23C (73f) in Winter because of the Heater (it‘s about 18 to 20C/64-68F at the orchids Place) and in Summer it can go all the way up to 32C (90f) and it will will at the Most cool down by like 3 to 4C (6-7f) over the Night, as the brick Walls hold Heat very well.

I also do not have an AC as they are quite uncommon here, especially if your Hose is old as Mine is (1945).

If you could answer me those questions than id finally have my mind at Rest and have certanty.

Below are a few pics of my plants and setup so you all get an idea.

[Güldner]

Thanks a Lot for the Info, i will have a Look at the rules

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Jmoney

as a windowsill grower for many many years, I don't think the day/night temp differential is required for flowering. a nice sunny window can flower all of those varieties, although the purpurata does require a lot of light (by indoor standards).

I do firmly believe that the day/night differential is one of the most underrated factors behind truly optimal culture. I think it is one major reason why summering plants outdoors is often so successful (as is the often better light, if diffused enough). The simple explanation is that plants store more energy with that temp drop at night. I was never able to achieve much of a differential in the home though. as Roberta said, if you can take advantage of a drafty window that will help somewhat.

I think i finally Found out how to propperly reply?

Thats also a very helpfull answer, i heard that the plants might not be able to Store enough Energy without the Temp Drop, But Mine seems to do just Fine in that regard, the Leaves are not dark Green, it grows and makes new roots, and it doesn‘t Show signs of stress.

How are your temperature Ranges? From what i can Tell you are from the US, and you might get a higher Temperature Drop at Night than i do? As your houses in my experience Trend to not be as well insulated and Store less Heat as they are often made from Wood? I am by the way very sorry if i got something wrong here or have a wrong idea of what houses in the US are like.

---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Roberta

Welcome to the Orchid Board and to a fascinating hobby.
I leave it to other contributors to advise about windowsill growing of these, many members grow indoors (I don't) Your post is excellent. So no worries there. The one thing that I CAN suggest, is patience... orchid progress is measured in months and years not days or weeks. Observe your plants and you will note what works and what doesn't.

You will get some natural temperature variation through the seasons (and day/night) if the plants are near the window - it will be cooler in winter and warmer in summer even if the overall room temperature is more even. And cooler at night too. And also get light variation which is also good. What you may want to do is to get some supplemental lights to provide more day-length and more light intensity during the dark days of winter.

Thanks for your reply Roberta, i do actually grow them under A plant light year Round, as the northern window would in no way shape or form Provide Close enough to enough light to sustain the orchids i have. But with the plantlight it works really well in terms of light, as you can See with my Vanda which has not had a period of more than a week since i got it in Late may where it has Not either bloomed or made a flowerspike. Last time it actually made two at once.

[Roberta]

The difference between an "easy orchid" and a "difficult orchid" is how closely the conditions that the orchid needs match the conditions that you have. Which ones fit into which category are different for different people. Your relatively even temperatures and warmth would favor the more tropical types (though you may need to provide supplemental light in winter) But orchids are also very adaptable... over time, you will observe your plants, and learn which ones are "easy" and which ones require more effort and accommodation. And that will influence what you acquire in the future. (Or, you might get really hooked and want to experiment a bit, figuring out what you can get away with. That's my story... )

Your Vanda looks great!

[bernardomantas97]

The house I'm living in (my grandparents' house) was built from the ground up by them about 50 years ago, and it was located in a small town (it has grown since then, and it's considered a village by now, with ~10k people). Back then, living in the countryside, working in the fields, it was hard enough to make a living, let alone to consider anything resembling a heating system (the closest we had, up until I was probably 3/4 years old, was an old cement baking furnace in our backyard, mostly used to bake bread). Nowadays, we have some insulating windows and it's usually never below freezing outside (the coldest so far this year was ~5°C), so it's often around 10~12°C inside, in the winter. It's cold, but arguably enough to justify any heating sources. All my plants seem to do just fine, as long as they are watered more sparingly (once a week, at most). I do have a humidifier and a fan, for better air circulation and constant moisture.

In the winter, the temperature fluctuates probably 3~4°C from day to night time, as there's sunlight most of the winter anyway, enough to warm up the house a bit in the morning.

In the summer, it can get up to 35~38°C, but with the fan blowing on max speed and the humidifier on the maximum setting; usually it's enough to water 2/3 times a week, but if the days get particularly dry, it might be necessary to also mist the plants occasionally. At night, the temperature usually drops to mid-twenties or low thirties.

Hope this helps!

[Güldner]

Originally Posted by bernardomantas97

The house I'm living in (my grandparents' house) was built from the ground up by them about 50 years ago, and it was located in a small town (it has grown since then, and it's considered a village by now, with ~10k people). Back then, living in the countryside, working in the fields, it was hard enough to make a living, let alone to consider anything resembling a heating system (the closest we had, up until I was probably 3/4 years old, was an old cement baking furnace in our backyard, mostly used to bake bread). Nowadays, we have some insulating windows and it's usually never below freezing outside (the coldest so far this year was ~5°C), so it's often around 10~12°C inside, in the winter. It's cold, but arguably enough to justify any heating sources. All my plants seem to do just fine, as long as they are watered more sparingly (once a week, at most). I do have a humidifier and a fan, for better air circulation and constant moisture.

In the winter, the temperature fluctuates probably 3~4°C from day to night time, as there's sunlight most of the winter anyway, enough to warm up the house a bit in the morning.

In the summer, it can get up to 35~38°C, but with the fan blowing on max speed and the humidifier on the maximum setting; usually it's enough to water 2/3 times a week, but if the days get particularly dry, it might be necessary to also mist the plants occasionally. At night, the temperature usually drops to mid-twenties or low thirties.

Hope this helps!

Yes that helps a Lot, thank you

Understandable now that the House doesn‘t have a heating System, we also used to only have a furnace in the living room, but that wasn‘t livable Anny longer as temperatures in Winter can go to -20C outside sometimes. So we installed a centralized heating System Running on Wood (also a reason i can‘t just let the Place cool down to mouch, if no Fire is going as soon as it gets to cold i am pretty screwed).

But it seems we have about the same temperature Drops Inside Even though the temperatures outside are very different, so i guess i should be Fine, i guess I’ll find out if they Bloom in about 2 years, untill then I’ll just have to Monitor how they are Doing.