Cattleya warscewiczii size question

[isurus79]

Oh wow, that's good info!

[Louis_W]

Originally Posted by Manfred Busche

According to Art Chadwick (personal communication) , son of the author of this piece :: Cattleya warscewiczii , his late father used to tell that those giant specimen were TRIPLOID forms of Cattleya warscewiczii.

And when at that time the technique of hybridization was mastered , new and attractive and non-pricey Cattleya hybrids would draw all the attention of the market.

And to make space in the greenhouses , those giant C. warscewiczii triploid plants were thrown to the garbage.

Gone forever !! Sad ...

This tale should answer this 'size question' , does it ?

Thank you! This is good info! Questions remain! Aren't some of our modern plants also polyploids? No AOS awards for chadwicks giant plants? No photos? Still not sure if I buy it, but I want to believe!

[Manfred Busche]

Originally Posted by Louis_W

Thank you! This is good info! Questions remain! Aren't some of our modern plants also polyploids? No AOS awards for chadwicks giant plants? No photos? Still not sure if I buy it, but I want to believe!

Hi Louis.
You seem passionate about this (smile) ... and so am I , because C. warscewiczii is my favorite Cattleya species
by a mile.

Triploidy is a very rare phenomenon that in nature occurs by chance , and even normal (diploid) C. warscewiczii plants grow fast to a large size , and this is why nursery men do not reproduce this species freely , and so the chance for a 'nursery-grown triploid' is probably VERY SLIM ...

I cultivate 5 different clones of C. warscewiczii , and 2 have names , 'La Floresta' and 'Ituango' , and I grow them the hard way , under the open sky in a rainy/sunny location at 700 meters above sea level. I will at any opportunity take in more clones of C. warscewiczii. (smile)

A normal diploid of C. warscewiczii is an adult plant when it has grown to 60 cms tall (p.bulb + leaf) ... and a triploid with 12"-flowers should be 80 cms to 100 cms tall , just to be able to produce and bear such oddly large flowers.

So , here is how I try to take care of them :: no fertilizer when there is no new growth , and heavy fertilizer to the individual plant after it's new shoots have grown to 10 cms in length. Plus hanging in full sun and much rain water and much blowing wind.
And this way , as a next step , I nourish my eternal small hope for a bunch of not 12" but skimpy 10"-flowers on any of my adult C.warscewiczii plants ... (smile)

postscriptum :: what Chadwick sen. has written about at his time , Cattleya warscewiczii , were natural plants taken from the forest in the wild old days , not nursery-produced plants bred for size ...
And there might well have been , in a remote place of virgin forest of Antioquia/Colombia , a chance triploid plant of C. warscewiczii , which then has multiplied within it's vicinity and over hundreds of years established a colony of triploids.
And then came the 'orchid hunters' guided by natives , to collect them all and ship them to England , where they ultimately ended on the garbage heap because they grow too big for purpose ... SO VERY SAD ...

[isurus79]

Considering the incredible size difference that I've documented between polyploid and diploid nobilior and amethystoglossa, I am not in any way surprised that there is a massive size difference in warscewiczii as well.

[Louis_W]

Originally Posted by Manfred Busche

Hi Louis.
You seem passionate about this (smile) ... and so am I , because C. warscewiczii is my favorite Cattleya species
by a mile.

Triploidy is a very rare phenomenon that in nature occurs by chance , and even normal (diploid) C. warscewiczii plants grow fast to a large size , and this is why nursery men do not reproduce this species freely , and so the chance for a 'nursery-grown triploid' is probably VERY SLIM ...

...

Haha I suppose I am! Stop me if I'm going overboard!

Artificially induced polyploidy is quite common these days and almost all cattleya species are bred with tetraploids, triploids, or sometimes more! That said Im not sure if I have ever seen a C. warscewiczii labeled as a polyploid.

Just looked and saw that orchidweb has an outdated listing for a C. Warscewiczii coerulea 4n. Guess they are out there (the photo was of a diploid so the jury is still out)

[Dusty Ol' Man]

Originally Posted by Louis_W

Haha I suppose I am! Stop me if I'm going overboard!

Artificially induced polyploidy is quite common these days and almost all cattleya species are bred with tetraploids, triploids, or sometimes more! That said Im not sure if I have ever seen a C. warscewiczii labeled as a polyploid.

Just looked and saw that orchidweb has an outdated listing for a C. Warscewiczii coerulea 4n. Guess they are out there (the photo was of a diploid so the jury is still out)

I'm sorry, but stopping someone from going overboard with orchids is NOT something we are prepared to do. Goes against the rules of enabling.

[orchidman77]

Well this conversation took a turn for the interesting. I'm so happy that Manfred shared personal comm. with Art about these giant warscewiczii!

I hope that we do find polyploid warscewiczii being circulated commercially. I know Fred Clarke has treated some warscewiczii flasks before in the hopes of finding polyploids. I can only imagine that polyploid warscewiczii are, well, gigantic.

Warscewiczii is still one of my very favorite cattleya species either way.

[Manfred Busche]

Hi David.

While I am 'leaning' towards the want to own an exceptionally large plant of C. warcewiczii (and trying to coax one into growing old , tall and large) , I ask myself how the PETALS of any 10" or even 12" flower would hold up , literally ...

So far , my 'La Floresta' , a young plant , has produced petals of a length of 10.7 cms ...

A 10" flower would have a petal length of 12.4 cms ... and the 12" flowers Art Chadwick sen. has written about , must have had a petal length of 14.9 cms (5.2 in) !!

[estación seca]

This is the kind of plant lust that keeps us coming back for more.

[Manfred Busche]

Originally Posted by estación seca

This is the kind of plant lust that keeps us coming back for more.

'plant lust' ... Uyyy , what a term ...

There is another word , coined by author Eric Hansen :: 'orchid fever' ...