Cattleya Bow Bells 'Rex' AM/AOS

[Jmoney]

[QUOTE=Louis_W;1011342]That's makes sense! I've read that they are all breeding 3n but those cultivars being 4n is logical. How did you learn which ones were tested?

Page 383 of this article goes into some of the genetic stuff with cattleya.


I can't seem to open the link! I am not certain which (if any) were actually chromosome counted, and I always want to be sure to state the source of info, since it's very easy for a hypothesis (or speculation) to spread as truth...but Jeff Bradley gave an excellent talk on white cattleyas that is available online on youtube I think - he noted 'Purity' is definitely fertile and therefore 4N.

Courtney Hackney in his book comments on how Clint McDade loved to use 'Honolulu' for breeding, and McDade made the Bob Betts cross with this cultivar (I believe). It sounds that all the remakes others tried were far inferior. (since everyone else tried to use various real mossiae and not 'Snow Queen')

I do not know if 'Rex' has any progeny, there were so many cultivars awarded in rapidfire succession in the 1940s-1950s. I suspect not, since the award for 'Rex' went to McDade and by all accounts he used the unawarded 'Honolulu' (which is still around and fairly obtainable)



---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Bayard

I have noticed little magenta flecks show up in the lip of my C. Earl ‘Imperialis’ as well.

That is fascinating! You are the first person I have found to have seen this, and I have been asking around! Any chance you have a pic?

Earl is Empress Bells (Bow Bells x Edithiae) x General Patton (Bow Bells x Barbara Billingsley) - Barbara Billingsley is a few more generations removed but is still only mossiae, gaskelliana, trianaei (which are the only 3 species in this entire parentage I believe)

I have a piece of Earl 'Imperialis' and have not seen this on my piece (bloomed a couple times)



---------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 PM ----------

Originally Posted by My Green Pets

Enjoying this discussion! My favorite Bow Bells is 'Purity' FCC/AOS as shown by Jeff Bradley in his Historic White Cattleyas discussion, highly recommended.
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'Purity' is on my wish list! Usually very pricey but one day I will find a more reasonable piece. Or maybe we should get a Bow Bells backbulb trade going!

[Louis_W]

Oops that link goes straight to the article download. Just Google this:

BREEDING CATTLEYA TRIBE ORCHIDS

Starts pretty basic and gets more detailed at the end.

Also I love watching those cattleya conference talks. Both of Jeff Bradley's are great. Roy Tokunaga is great. I keep wanting them to have another conference but it seems very random as to when they do it.

[sam1147]

Beautiful bloom. Thank you all for participating and the vast knowledge.

[piping plover]

Hi Jmoney, I know this is an older post but I saw your comment on Earl 'Imperialis. Do you have photos of the foliage, bulbs, and blooms that you can post on here?

I believe mine is one from BetterGro/Sunbulb Co that I bought decades ago and would like to compare to photos of those who own this variety.

A very interesting conversation on this thread.

Also, to your original post. I visited Chadwick's Orchids in rural VA this year and purchased their Classic Cattleyas book. Yes, the history on the classic white cattleya hybridization efforts in the early 1900s-1960s was really fascinating. Such deep passionate knowledge the chadwick's have for these cattleyas.

Thank you!
Joe

[QUOTE=Jmoney;1011357]

Originally Posted by Louis_W

That's makes sense! I've read that they are all breeding 3n but those cultivars being 4n is logical. How did you learn which ones were tested?

Page 383 of this article goes into some of the genetic stuff with cattleya.


I can't seem to open the link! I am not certain which (if any) were actually chromosome counted, and I always want to be sure to state the source of info, since it's very easy for a hypothesis (or speculation) to spread as truth...but Jeff Bradley gave an excellent talk on white cattleyas that is available online on youtube I think - he noted 'Purity' is definitely fertile and therefore 4N.

Courtney Hackney in his book comments on how Clint McDade loved to use 'Honolulu' for breeding, and McDade made the Bob Betts cross with this cultivar (I believe). It sounds that all the remakes others tried were far inferior. (since everyone else tried to use various real mossiae and not 'Snow Queen')

I do not know if 'Rex' has any progeny, there were so many cultivars awarded in rapidfire succession in the 1940s-1950s. I suspect not, since the award for 'Rex' went to McDade and by all accounts he used the unawarded 'Honolulu' (which is still around and fairly obtainable)



---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------



That is fascinating! You are the first person I have found to have seen this, and I have been asking around! Any chance you have a pic?

Earl is Empress Bells (Bow Bells x Edithiae) x General Patton (Bow Bells x Barbara Billingsley) - Barbara Billingsley is a few more generations removed but is still only mossiae, gaskelliana, trianaei (which are the only 3 species in this entire parentage I believe)

I have a piece of Earl 'Imperialis' and have not seen this on my piece (bloomed a couple times)



---------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 PM ----------



'Purity' is on my wish list! Usually very pricey but one day I will find a more reasonable piece. Or maybe we should get a Bow Bells backbulb trade going!

[Bayard]

Here is an old image of the plant with the
Purple flecks in the lip of the left flower:

[piping plover]

Thank you for sharing that photo. Extraordinarily beautiful blooms. And excellent photography as well. Do you still have the plant and can you please post photos of the foliage and pseudobulbs?

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Bayard

Here is an old image of the plant with the
Purple flecks in the lip of the left flower:

[Jmoney]

Thanks for posting that pic, Bayard! I didn't get any purple on my Earl last year when it bloomed (it's an original).

Joe, I have heard this cultivar tends to be slightly more compact but otherwise you will be hard-pressed to tell any of the white standard cattleyas apart vegetatively.

[piping plover]

Thank you Jmoney.

Regarding the purple on the lip, I thought you and Bayard might find this interesting (or already are aware)

Someone else already mentioned this podcast series by Jeff Bradley. In the 2016 event (6th symposium) , starting at around the 39:00 minute mark, Jeff specifically mentions that the purple marking in the lip of the classic whites can always be traced back to Deese ‘French Lace’ (sounds like he says Diaz, but looks like Deese). That’s how I understood it. Do you think that’s the origin of the purple marking in your Earl?

I think there’s another thread on this purple marking that I can’t find now, and maybe it’s a conversation you both were having.

Anyhow, sorry for the long post. I was at the gym on a treadmill and when he mentioned the purple i recalled your conversation and made a point to mark the place. Hopefully the video link below works. Otherwise , you can look it up on YouTube with the screenshot photos below.

Thank you for the info on the compact habit. I need to take some photos and address this in another reply.

[piping plover]

Jmoney, i just found your post earlier in this thread about the purple or magenta marking. Do you think this is attributed to the Jeff Bradley podcast info i just posted above (the Deese ‘French Lace)? Or is it not even in the lineage of Earl.

Originally Posted by Jmoney

For anyone who loves orchid history, and any classic cattleya fans, I highly recommend reading about the famous Bow Bells on Chadwick Orchids website. Some wonderful articles on this landmark white hybrid from the 1940s.

I have managed to obtain a few of the cultivars still in existence, but this one might be my favorite (for now). 'Rex' was one of the earlier awards (1950), and I am guessing it must have been one of the original seedlings imported by Clint McDade (who got the award). I got it from the late Plato Mathews several years ago, and it is particularly interesting to me in that it always blooms with a tiny dusting of magenta spots (and occasional dashes) in the lips. (I have tested this for virus a few times, all negative). I have not been able to locate the original flower description from 1950 and guess that has been lost to posterity.

I had asked every cattleya expert I could find about this unusual pattern, and the responses ranged from "you have a mislabelled plant" to "Bow Bells is known to have some recessive pigment genes" to "this would have been a great question for [longtime cattleya grower, sadly no longer living]". My unproven hypothesis is that somehow in the 70+ years of cultivation something turned "on" to produce this pigment. I had asked Plato himself after the first blooming for me, and he didn't seem to recall seeing it himself but told me about recessive pigment genes. The dusting is more subtle on this blooming but if you look closely it is there. I have never seen any other cattleya with this pattern.

[Jmoney]

Déesse is not in the background of Bow Bells or Earl. Bow Bells is heavily in the background of Earl. Déesse hybrids can produce a small vertical magenta streak in the midline of the lips (on some bloomings).

I have asked a lot of people in the know about this faint speckling in the lips. Most, including Plato himself, thought nothing more of it, just that perhaps some recessive genes were hidden, or got turned on somehow. Jeff's opinion, and he knows a lot, is that this is mislabeled, but personally I don't think so. Until I saw Bayard's pic, I had never seen a cattleya with this pattern.