What's Happening to My Catt Leaves?

[c123anderson]

Hi everyone! I have some leaf browning on two of my Cattleyas. If anyone has any thoughts on why and treatment/what to do, I'd be grateful for advice and thoughts.

The first three pictures are my Cattleya Hawaiian Wedding Song 'Virgin'. The first image is when I first received the plant a couple of months ago. The next two images are its current state. The images all show some leaf damage, but the leaf has yellowed a lot over the last few days.

I received C. Hawaiian Wedding Song 'Virgin' as a cutting while repotting. The plant had been treated (and then monitored by me) for armored scale. The last time I treated this plant for pests has been about 1 month ago. This was a spray with Enstar II and spot check with rubbing alcohol.

The next four pictures are my Cattleya gaskelliana. The first image is when I repotted it almost 1 month ago. The next few images show the damaged leaf with the last image showing it closer. The leaf, like the other plant, had been "okay" up to about a few days ago.

I received C. gaskelliana about 1 month ago from a closing nursery. It had scale, too. I treated it for scale and have kept it isolated a been monitoring it. This plant had been treated for pests by me and was last treated several weeks ago. Treatment included Sevin soak and spray, repotting in fresh media with new pot, Enstar II spray, and spot treatment with rubbing alchol.

I'm not sure why one leaf seems to be suddenly browning. In the case of the C. Hawaiian Wedding Song, the leaf already had some damage from an unknown source.

Plants are grown indoors. Checked daily or every other day for pests (so far, none after treatments). Temps range from 68F to 73F. Humidity is 40%-60%. Light is through opaque west-facing window with bright (filtered) afternoon sun. Light in this region of US is from 5 am to 8:30 pm -- about 15-16 hours per day right now.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why the leaves are browning? Should I remove them? I check them to see if they have separated and are falling off on their own, but, so far, no. Should I be worried?

I believe this may be just stressed plants. Both have new growths (you can see the C. gaskelliana's in at least one of the images) and have green eyes which I'm monitoring for more new growth.

And, I appreciate the feedback. I've just recently found I enjoy Cattleya alliance plants and have been acquiring some more, including more from the out-of-business nursery. All my other plants are doing well, growing (some with happy sap), with no evidence of problems (bugs, fungus, disease, leaf damage, etc.). The leaf damage doesn't seem to be spreading to other plants or leaves on the same plant, either.

I'm just not sure how or if I should address or worry about this.

[Roberta]

What did the roots look like? Even if they were good, they need time to adjust to their new environment (and old roots may not... that's why the ideal time to repot is when the new ones are appearing because those are the ones that will really adapt to the new medium. Until the new growth/roots establish, the plant is running on reserves. So it will suck on the older growths to keep itself going until it's established. When sucked dry, those growths will yellow and drop leaves naturally - let the plant do its thing. A month is nothing in the life of an orchid. You need to baby it through a growth cycle - which can be multiple months. So patience... Not a pest problem, just stress. If you're going to treat with anything, Kelpak would be a good thing to use if you haven't already. Give those new roots a jump-start.

[estación seca]

The plants are extremely dessicated and are losing leaves because of this. They may have poor roots or you might not be watering enough. They need to grow new roots in order to survive. Raise the humidity by putting them into an enclosure to minimize transpiration loss. With large badk like that they can stay moist without worrying about root rot. Raising the temperature will probably speed up growth.

[c123anderson]

Originally Posted by Roberta

What did the roots look like? Even if they were good, they need time to adjust to their new environment (and old roots may not... that's why the ideal time to repot is when the new ones are appearing because those are the ones that will really adapt to the new medium. Until the new growth/roots establish, the plant is running on reserves. So it will suck on the older growths to keep itself going until it's established. When sucked dry, those growths will yellow and drop leaves naturally - let the plant do its thing.

Hi Roberta! This is what I was wondering, if this is just stress. I'm monitoring both for new growth. The roots on the C. gaskelliana were okay, but there were new roots growing with a new growth when I repotted it.

Originally Posted by Roberta

If you're going to treat with anything, Kelpak would be a good thing to use if you haven't already. Give those new roots a jump-start.

I tried Orchid Love and have Kelpak on the rotation for the next fertilizing. Can I use Kelpak earlier or should I wait until I fertilize next?

---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------

Originally Posted by estación seca

The plants are extremely dessicated and are losing leaves because of this. They may have poor roots or you might not be watering enough. They need to grow new roots in order to survive. Raise the humidity by putting them into an enclosure to minimize transpiration loss. With large badk like that they can stay moist without worrying about root rot. Raising the temperature will probably speed up growth.

I agree they may be somewhat desiccated. The C. gaskelliana was definitely struggling with the closing nursery. I have also increased the watering. Both have some new roots coming in. But both have been stressed due to pests and pest control measures.

I'm also noticing the pseudobulbs on the C. gaskelliana. They look quite withered and dry, but I have seen other C. gaskelliana for sale with similar wrinkly pseudobulbs. I'm not sure if that's evidence of desiccation or not. Not questioning; just wanting to read the signs correctly and not overwater.

[Roberta]

Follow the instructions on the Kelpak. It's a once-a-month treatment, not a fertilizer. Orchid Love is a fertilizer (supposedly) but when I look it up, it seems to be a "secret magic mix" ... Fertilizer should give you the percentages of the major constituaents - Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P), Potassium (K). Check Ray's website for how to calculate the right concentration, nitrogen is the most important.

---------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

The wrinkly p-bulbs are sign of desiccation - some is normal (the plant drawing on reserves) but the newest ones should be plump. They're not going to plump up once shriveled, but new growth should be plump. The older roots are just not that efficient at taking up water. So, as ES said, you need to reduce water loss by raising humidity (such as enclosing the plant in a plastic bag), water so that it runs through the pot (pulling air into the root zone), then let dry out for a few days. As with all epiphytic orchids, your goal is "humid air" in the root zone, not "soggy wet". Until you get some roots going, fertilizer is not very important since the plant can't absorb it. It's all about roots...

[c123anderson]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Follow the instructions on the Kelpak. It's a once-a-month treatment, not a fertilizer. Orchid Love is a fertilizer (supposedly) but when I look it up, it seems to be a "secret magic mix" ... Fertilizer should give you the percentages of the major constituaents - Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P), Potassium (K). Check Ray's website for how to calculate the right concentration, nitrogen is the most important.

I want to say that the Orchid Love had the amounts on the bottle, but, yes, I don't like the feeling of being deceived on ingredients. That seems more like "snake oil".

Frankly, the Orchid Love smelled so strongly and looked like its description, "all natural organic ingredients, a mix of the highest quality products including liquid kelp, liquid fish & beneficial plant substances" it was not something I'd use a lot. According to the seller, GS Plant Foods, it's 1-1-0.4 with no urea, just to record this information for someone looking in the future.

[Roberta]

Snake oil. Very expensive water. Plain old Miracle Gro at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon will do the job. There's debate on the subject, but you have to figure that orchids can utilize organic nitrogen such as urea... in nature, they get their nitrogen from rotting detritus, bird poop, etc. not ammonium nitrate (which might be a bit more efficient but not a big deal either way)

[c123anderson]

[/COLOR]The wrinkly p-bulbs are sign of desiccation - some is normal (the plant drawing on reserves) but the newest ones should be plump. They're not going to plump up once shriveled, but new growth should be plump. The older roots are just not that efficient at taking up water. So, as ES said, you need to reduce water loss by raising humidity (such as enclosing the plant in a plastic bag), water so that it runs through the pot (pulling air into the root zone), then let dry out for a few days. As with all epiphytic orchids, your goal is "humid air" in the root zone, not "soggy wet". Until you get some roots going, fertilizer is not very important since the plant can't absorb it. It's all about roots...[/QUOTE]

Okay, I watch the wrinkly pseudobulbs but try not to overcorrect (too much water). With both plants, both have new growth (new pseudobulbs) starting that look healthy. This means there's hope.

I will certainly take ES's advice and yours. I want to make sure the new roots are healthy and have food, but give the plants what they need to establish and grow.

At this point, though, the leaves browning are indications of issues, but they shouldn't be panic-inducing.

Thank you both for your advice and thoughts.

With the C. gaskelliana, I received a few more struggling Cattleya alliance plants from the out-of-business nursery. All, including C. gaskelliana, are actually forming new roots and seem to be moving in the right direction. But your advice is still extremely helpful, particularly the humidity, which I hadn't thought of.

Thank you!

---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Roberta

Snake oil. Very expensive water. Plain old Miracle Gro at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon will do the job. There's debate on the subject, but you have to figure that orchids can utilize organic nitrogen such as urea... in nature, they get their nitrogen from rotting detritus, bird poop, etc. not ammonium nitrate (which might be a bit more efficient but not a big deal either way)

I've actually had very good luck with MiracleGro. I got some of the Orchid blend, but, frankly, the old blue stuff works great, too.

This is what the C. gaskelliana received after repotting, was MiracleGro.

[Roberta]

Just remember, fertilizer is the least important of cultural factors in most cases, since orchids use those nutrients just to grow new tissue - and since they grow so slowly they use very little. Think of fertilizer as "vitamins" not "food" ... orchids and other green plants make their own food (carbs) by photosynthesis. A tomato plant - or catasetum during the growing period of spring/summer, are adding new tissue fast - you can almost watch them get bigger. So they need more fertilizer. But most orchids add maybe a new growth over the course of the year. Slooowwwww. if the plant's ability to absorb minerals (and water for that matter) is reduced due to lack of roots, you just need to hold the line (that's where the humidity thing comes in) to minimize the loss of the water that it has already stored up, until it grows some roots. Vitamins (fertilizer) won't make that happen any faster, Where a supplement such as Kelpak comes in is that it stimulates root growth. Used at the prescribed rate, more is not better.

[Leafmite]

If you do not have high humidity, you might need to use a terrarium to keep up the humidity for a while. I have to do this sometimes with orchids that are not in good condition when I get them. The goal is to get the new pseudububs established before the old pseudbulb is completely exhausted of anything it can give the new one. The extra humidity helps to preserve what little stores the old one has.