Cattleya Walkeriana 'the Chairman' X 'Whopper"

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by katsucats

HR Nurseries have non-Pendentive walkerianas from time to time, and Marni (flasks). It seems Pendentive lines are still commonly being used. I'm now looking into another clone that has some controversy, Cattleya harrisoniana 'Streeter's Choice'. Man, loddigesii are sneaking its way up into everything!

Either way, that plant looks great!

While Streeter's Choice is probably a hybrid, its really stunning! Plus, growing the known hybrids passed off as species gives you a better eye for other "fakes" going around.

[Eisland]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Yes, the Chairman has loddigesii in it's background. It's from that whole 'Pendentive' complex that includes well known plants like 'Dayane Wenzel' and 'Estrela da Colina.'

'Dayane Wenzel' and 'Estrela da Colina' is really more with the ancestral 'Orchidglade'. These don't pass the dolosa lip and yellowish white colored side lobes like the 'Pendentive' progeny. Real Orchidglade progeny like Estrela, Dayane and others are so distinctive and still within C. walkeriana parameters.

[RJSquirrel]

have to check the rest of them ones I have and see if they are real or not .


the loddigesii alone is a wonderful flower.

DNA was suppose to sort this all out right?

[orchidman77]

I have a feeling that DNA testing would only conflate the matter further.

David

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Eisland

'Dayane Wenzel' and 'Estrela da Colina' is really more with the ancestral 'Orchidglade'. These don't pass the dolosa lip and yellowish white colored side lobes like the 'Pendentive' progeny. Real Orchidglade progeny like Estrela, Dayane and others are so distinctive and still within C. walkeriana parameters.

The morphology you discuss is correct in that they appear like walkeriana (as does 'Orchidglade') but my 'Estrela' x sib progeny bloom in the spring instead of the fall. They don't have the same aversion to blooming with persistent nightlight like pure walkeriana do either, so there are certainly some legacy influences from loddigesii. Though I have to admit, the legacy influences seem pretty positive, but hybrid vigor will do that!

---------- Post added at 07:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 AM ----------

Originally Posted by orchidman77

I have a feeling that DNA testing would only conflate the matter further.

David

Yes, the first walkeriana DNA test used 'Pendentive' lines to compare with x dolosa and (surprise, surprise) they found no genetic difference. The study was redone with appropriate comparisons with more useful results that were only semi-conclusive.

[Clawhammer]

Purity schmurity... 5% loddigesii but better vigor and growth habit; same flower and fragrance? Sign me up!

[Eisland]

Originally Posted by isurus79

The morphology you discuss is correct in that they appear like walkeriana (as does 'Orchidglade') but my 'Estrela' x sib progeny bloom in the spring instead of the fall. They don't have the same aversion to blooming with persistent nightlight like pure walkeriana do either, so there are certainly some legacy influences from loddigesii. Though I have to admit, the legacy influences seem pretty positive, but hybrid vigor will do that!

---------- Post added at 07:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 AM ----------



Yes, the first walkeriana DNA test used 'Pendentive' lines to compare with x dolosa and (surprise, surprise) they found no genetic difference. The study was redone with appropriate comparisons with more useful results that were only semi-conclusive.

Yes on blooming times. The original 'Orchidglade' is still quite a genetic mystery. What I mean is the morphology of the plants from "Orchidglade" vs. the plants from the 'Pendentive' line. Also in reality all comes from a self of the original "Orchidglade". 'Estrela da Colina', 'Dayane Wenzel' and 'Rosa Silvestre' are the result of a wild tipo walkeriana crossed with an 'Orchidglade' that in reality was a self from the original plant, but different to the 'Pendentive' clone. Plants resulting from Pendentive tend to pass a very distinctive color and shape to the lip and side lobes even a few generations later.

In the walkeriana DNA test paper you can see there are a few tested plants named "Orchidglade" from different sources. If I remember well all having DNA differences among them.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Eisland

In the walkeriana DNA test paper you can see there are a few tested plants named "Orchidglade" from different sources. If I remember well all having DNA differences among them.

There are two papers now!

[Eisland]

Originally Posted by isurus79

There are two papers now!

Oh, didn't know of a second paper!

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

This is the latest one I've read: Genetic diversity between native and improved Cattleya walkeriana Gardner famous clones

Acta Scientiarum. Agronomy, vol. 39, no. 3, pp. 315-320, 2017

[orchidman77]

This is fascinating! I'd love to watch a seminar-esque zoom meeting where some of you walkeriana experts chat about the situation involving plants that we have access to today and their species/introgressed hybrid statuses.

David