Genealogy for Two H&R C. walkeriana Compots

[thefish1337]

Originally Posted by isurus79

---------- Post added at 08:29 PM ----------

Carmela and Gold Country look identical to my eye. I have to assume they're the same plant.

that's what I thought too!

[K-Sci]

From my notes, the progeny of C. walkeriana ‘Orchidglade’ include:

'Dayane Wenzel' - selfing of Orchidglade' and a C. walkeriana v. tipo
'Estrel De Colina' – sibling of Dayane Wenzel
‘Diamond Bright’ – Multi-generational breeding of ‘Orchidglade’
‘Perfect Charm’ – Multi-generational breeding of ‘Orchidglade’
'The Chairman' - 'Pendentive' and 'Tokyo No. 1
Pendentive - Orchidglade x ?
'Kenny' - ?

I'm not sure of the original sources, so there may be errors. I have 'Gold Country' but don't know the breeding.

-Keith

[Eisland]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

From my notes, the progeny of C. walkeriana ‘Orchidglade’ include:

'Dayane Wenzel' - selfing of Orchidglade' and a C. walkeriana v. tipo
'Estrel De Colina' – sibling of Dayane Wenzel
‘Diamond Bright’ – Multi-generational breeding of ‘Orchidglade’
‘Perfect Charm’ – Multi-generational breeding of ‘Orchidglade’
'The Chairman' - 'Pendentive' and 'Tokyo No. 1
Pendentive - Orchidglade x ?
'Kenny' - ?

I'm not sure of the original sources, so there may be errors. I have 'Gold Country' but don't know the breeding.

-Keith

Exactly, that's what I have in my notes. There are a few "Orchidglades" but they are actually from a self of the original, including the parent of 'Dayane Wenzel' and 'Estrela da Colina'. I haven't found info of the other parent of DW and Estrela, only that 4 plants were produced from that cross. I don't know the other two siblings.

There's a tipo 'Gold Country', a 'Gold Country II' and a semi alba 'Gold Country'. The semi alba has a very simple shape. I don't see any trace of The Chairman or Pendentive in this one.

---------- Post added at 08:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 AM ----------

[QUOTE=isurus79;973282]Yes, actually. I know that Estrela da Colina has several famous sibs (you mentioned Dayane Wenzel in another thread). I can't recall the named sibs!

Do you also recall the names of both parents for those famous sibs? I know Orchidglade was one, but was the other named also?[COLOR="Silver"]


Sorry, what I only have in my notes is that the Orchidglade parent was actually a self of the original, so it's a different plant and the other parent was a vigorous plant but with 'not so good shape". The OG parent used was a delicate plant and a sibling of the other OG self that was comercialized and called 'Equilab'. That delicate OG self was difficult to get pods from selfs or crosses with other walkerianas. Only 4 plants were able to grow from which Dayane Wenzel and Estrela were famous and cloned in Japan.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Eisland

Sorry, what I only have in my notes is that the Orchidglade parent was actually a self of the original, so it's a different plant and the other parent was a vigorous plant but with 'not so good shape". The OG parent used was a delicate plant and a sibling of the other OG self that was comercialized and called 'Equilab'. That delicate OG self was difficult to get pods from selfs or crosses with other walkerianas. Only 4 plants were able to grow from which DW and Estrela were famous.

Ahhh, I may have been thinking of Equilab.

I was also thinking that Puanani, Tokyo 1, H&R, and a handful of others were also contained within that line.

[Eisland]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Ahhh, I may have been thinking of Equilab.

I was also thinking that Puanani, Tokyo 1, H&R, and a handful of others were also contained within that line.

The above came from a cross of two suave wild plants named 'Meire' and 'Nem Sempre'. 'Ann', 'George Suzuki' and 'Dayana' are also from this line.... and I suspect 'Taka', 'Carmela'/'Gold Country' are from this line too.

'Equilab' is another self of the original 'Orchidglade', brought to Brazil from Miami and sibling of the other Orchidglade self that produced 'Estrela da Colina' and Dayane Wenzel. Those descendants look quite different from those of Pendentive ancestry. Pendentive descendants tends to inherit a "creamy yellow moustache" in the lip and sidelobes.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Eisland

Pendentive descendants tends to inherit a "creamy yellow moustache" in the lip and sidelobes.

I've noticed that as well. Really, a lot of the dolosa types have that.

[Eisland]

[QUOTE=isurus79;973282]Yes, actually. I know that Estrela da Colina has several famous sibs (you mentioned Dayane Wenzel in another thread). I can't recall the named sibs!

Do you also recall the names of both parents for those famous sibs? I know Orchidglade was one, but was the other named also?[COLOR="Silver"]


I checked my notes about 'Estrela da Colina' and 'Dayane Wenzel' genealogy and according to what I have in my notes the cross was done by Mr. Evaldo Wenzel (No. 655) -'Orchidglade' self x Tipo '005' (We have a clone name here). 'Rosa Silvestre' was another sibling of 'Dayane Wenzel' and 'Estrela da Colina'.

[K-Sci]

I wish I kept better notes. I also have this from a web site I can't recall. Using induction to get non-4N plants from 4N plants isn't something I can understand. This covers some of the H&R clones.
-Keith
Edit: I found the source after a few searches: Cattleya walkeriana Tipo Sakura Raindrop


It would be priceless if some of the breeders, especially Harry at H&R, published the genealogy for their walkeriana. Some of this information may be lost forever as breeders retire. It isn't as though other people knowing where plants came from will cause them to lose business. If anything, I would expect that the knowledge would pique interests.

[Eisland]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

I wish I kept better notes. I also have this from a web site I can't recall. Using induction to get non-4N plants from 4N plants isn't something I can understand. This covers some of the H&R clones.
-Keith
Edit: I found the source after a few searches: Cattleya walkeriana Tipo Sakura Raindrop


It would be priceless if some of the breeders, especially Harry at H&R, published the genealogy for their walkeriana. Some of this information may be lost forever as breeders retire. It isn't as though other people knowing where plants came from will cause them to lose business. If anything, I would expect that the knowledge would pique interests.

I agree. It's so difficult finding genealogy of many, specially for the American lines. BTW that's the same genealogy (Sakura Snowball) for 'Perfect Blush'.

You can induce 4N plants by treating seedlings in vitro with Colchicine or Oryzalin. It's a long process with a very limited survival since the induction is harsh and there's no guarantee that in the end the plants will be polyploid, but there's a good chance.

Also polyploid mutations may happen in batches of meristem plants. 'Puanani' and 'H&R' were meristemed so probably a few selected 4N mutations of these appeared and later were used as parents which very likely happened in the genealogy shown.

[SADE2020]

I definitely can't contribute to the question, but I want a child of yours ... I mean a seedling from the crossing