Keeping them wet, wet, wet!

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by jcec1

I agree about keeping them wet. I keep mine in about 1 inch (2.5cm) of water all summer, I also start watering as soon as new growth occurs. This has been watered since April, I stopped watering in January.

This is a Cycnodes Taiwan Gold - the leaves are about 18 inches long and 3 inches wide, it gets the same treatment year on year and I have seen no degradation of the plant.

Out of curiosity, I would love to see the new roots on this after the growing season is finished. Or if the plant is in a clear pot, can you post root pics?

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

Originally Posted by bil

Can you expand your remarks please? Only they aren't all that clear to me.

Originally Posted by bil

Steve raises some interesting points, and I really hope he will contribute some more. There is such a divergence between what we are doing, and conventional wisdom, that I really hope to get as much info as possible on the subject.

Bil sent me a PM to clarify and I sent him a response. However, I figure I should post my response here to contribute to the overall conversation:

Catasetum roots tend to stop growing when they encounter moisture. That's why you need them to be 4 inches (at minimum!) before you start watering. In nature they send the roots out before the rainy season and then spend their energy on growing leaves and bulbs.

If the new roots encounter moisture, they stop growing and try to put out new leaves and bulbs. Your plant might be able to send one year's growth with the energy stored in old bulbs plus the little bit of moisture that the new, stunted roots can provide. These plants will likely even bloom for you. However, such plants often won't survive the dormancy and will die the following year.

This is why the best growers wait as long as possible before watering. You want to get an giant root system to grow a giant plant, which will put out flowers and have a successful dormancy.

Plants that put out new roots that die are a bit of a mystery to me too. I've got plants that do that and they usually die. Its very frustrating. However, there are a few things you can do help the new, small growth. Stabilize the plant so it can't move in the pot, even with the strongest breeze. A plant that wiggles will bump the root tips on the media, causing them to abort. Picking the plant up or unpotting them to see the new roots will do the same thing. Keep your plant in the same spot if possible. If not possible, try to minimize the amount of movement until the growth is large enough to see well formed leaves. At this stage the new growth is unlikely to abort because of a new position relative to the light. Even then, move the plant as little as possible.

These guys love high temps, lots of water (when the roots are long enough) and high humidity. They don't need direct sun, but Spain is pretty far north so the sun should not be too strong. A 50% shade cloth would work or hanging the plant under an oak tree during midday would work too.

[jcec1]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Out of curiosity, I would love to see the new roots on this after the growing season is finished. Or if the plant is in a clear pot,

Here is a pic of the roots, they fill the pot. Also, you can see from a Cycnoches the difference in size between last year's growth and this year's, the plant continues to get stronger (the older pseudobulbs were removed for propagation).

[bil]

Originally Posted by jcec1

Here is a pic of the roots, they fill the pot. Also, you can see from a Cycnoches the difference in size between last year's growth and this year's, the plant continues to get stronger (the older pseudobulbs were removed for propagation).

Some questions please. How long have you been treating them this way, and have you been having problems at all? Have any pBulbs not increased in size compared to the parent buld, or have any died on you (excluding death from other causes)?

Also to clarify, you start watering way before the roots have reached their recommended length?

[jcec1]

Originally Posted by bil

Some questions please. How long have you been treating them this way, and have you been having problems at all? Have any pBulbs not increased in size compared to the parent buld, or have any died on you (excluding death from other causes)?

Also to clarify, you start watering way before the roots have reached their recommended length?

I've only been growing Catasetum types for three years, I've used this regime all that time (through naivety and also I'm conscious of the fact that I have a very short growing season, summers here are cool and cloudy, so I don't have the gift of a long, hot guaranteed summer, so my thought is get as much growing out of them as possible as they won't grow as quickly as those growing much further south).

Never had any set backs, and the pseudobulbs show an annual increase in size. And yes, I water as soon as i see new growth, starting with a trickle increasing as the plant grows, well before the roots have finished growing. I've only got about 10 though and never had any rot or fungal problems. I use a slow release granular fertiliser, plus they get Miracle Gro and seaweed once a fortnight (two weeks), watered usually twice a week. I'm not saying this is the way to grow them, and I'm not an expert by any means, this is just my experience so far.

[bil]

Originally Posted by jcec1

I've only been growing Catasetum types for three years, I've used this regime all that time (through naivety and also I'm conscious of the fact that I have a very short growing season, summers here are cool and cloudy, so I don't have the gift of a long, hot guaranteed summer, so my thought is get as much growing out of them as possible as they won't grow as quickly as those growing much further south).

Never had any set backs, and the pseudobulbs show an annual increase in size. And yes, I water as soon as i see new growth, starting with a trickle increasing as the plant grows, well before the roots have finished growing. I've only got about 10 though and never had any rot or fungal problems. I use a slow release granular fertiliser, plus they get Miracle Gro and seaweed once a fortnight (two weeks), watered usually twice a week. I'm not saying this is the way to grow them, and I'm not an expert by any means, this is just my experience so far.

Thanks for the input. It's interesting to hear how other people do it.
There have been others on her experimeting with watering during dormancy, and having good results.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by jcec1

Here is a pic of the roots, they fill the pot. Also, you can see from a Cycnoches the difference in size between last year's growth and this year's, the plant continues to get stronger (the older pseudobulbs were removed for propagation).

Wow! Tough to argue with these results! Looks like a spectacularly grown plant.

Have you used this regimen with other, non-complex hybrids? Or species?

How cool does it get while this plant is being watered? Especially early in the growth cycle.

[jcec1]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Wow! Tough to argue with these results! Looks like a spectacularly grown plant.

Have you used this regimen with other, non-complex hybrids? Or species?

How cool does it get while this plant is being watered? Especially early in the growth cycle.

Yes I'm doing it with Catasetum pileatum, charlesworthii and a few other hybrids - all the same regimen - I like to group similar plants together and give them the same treatment, i.e. all my phalaenopsis get the same treatment as each other, similarly all my Catasetum types are lumped together and they get the same treatment.

In terms of temperature they are all grown indoors. In spring temps will be around 16C rising to 20-25C in summer, maybe one of the pluses is that there is 17-18 hours of light in summer (not always sun) so the plants can grow strongly in that short period.

I guess it's an example of how everyone's conditions are different and cultivation methods need to differ too. Next year, I will try both methods and see if there is any advantage.

[orchidsarefun]

Jcec1 I have had similar results to yours over a range of species and hybrids. In fact I have a macroglossum currently in spike, roughly 6-8 weeks earlier than last year - entirely due to early watering. My 1 pileatum which I started early watering also appears to be growing a spike nub. There is an extensive thread on what I did at the time. Unfortunately I can't post photo updates because tapatalk is down......@#$$!@@!
The results are also despite me putting them all outdoors and going on vacation for 2 weeks in June. During that time there was almost daily rain and temps dropping into the 50's. A couple were also sunburnt as the creeper plants covering my patio grew at a slower pace as a result of the variable weather.
I definitely encourage experimentation as, for those of us with a short season, any jump start is invaluable.

---------- Post added at 06:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------

I also have about 8 backbulbs that are outdoors in separate pots. These have tiny growths and I have been watering these too, in addition to them being exposed to the elements. Its obviously early days regarding survival but they currently all look ok. Growth varies between 1/8 inch and 3 inches. Roots all down in pots.

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 PM ----------

As an aside - I recommend a general spray to eradicate spidermites, to be used regularly. I don't know why but in my conditions they are a huge problem. They went crazy when I was on vacation and I got back to obviously damaged leaves. And they also are a problem when I bring them indoors too.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

As an aside - I recommend a general spray to eradicate spidermites, to be used regularly. I don't know why but in my conditions they are a huge problem. They went crazy when I was on vacation and I got back to obviously damaged leaves. And they also are a problem when I bring them indoors too.

I feel your pain. I f*%$ing hate those things! They can take a plant down pretty quickly.

[bil]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

Jcec1 I have had similar results to yours over a range of species and hybrids. In fact I have a macroglossum currently in spike, roughly 6-8 weeks earlier than last year - entirely due to early watering. My 1 pileatum which I started early watering also appears to be growing a spike nub. There is an extensive thread on what I did at the time. Unfortunately I can't post photo updates because tapatalk is down......@#$$!@@!
The results are also despite me putting them all outdoors and going on vacation for 2 weeks in June. During that time there was almost daily rain and temps dropping into the 50's. A couple were also sunburnt as the creeper plants covering my patio grew at a slower pace as a result of the variable weather.
I definitely encourage experimentation as, for those of us with a short season, any jump start is invaluable.

---------- Post added at 06:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------

I also have about 8 backbulbs that are outdoors in separate pots. These have tiny growths and I have been watering these too, in addition to them being exposed to the elements. Its obviously early days regarding survival but they currently all look ok. Growth varies between 1/8 inch and 3 inches. Roots all down in pots.

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 PM ----------

As an aside - I recommend a general spray to eradicate spidermites, to be used regularly. I don't know why but in my conditions they are a huge problem. They went crazy when I was on vacation and I got back to obviously damaged leaves. And they also are a problem when I bring them indoors too.

Glad to hear you are having good results. Do keep us updated on how it all goes.

Here are my backbullbs in the wet tray with the seedlings I got this year.. So far, excellent growth.

Spider mites?? this year and last year I got hit badly, with enough damage done to prevent some flowering. Since that secnd bout, the Cats all get a routine acaricide spray. I know some people get very upset over the idea of routinely spraying pesticide, but without that half the plants in my garden would be destroyed.