Catasetum MALE (male) flowers ...

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

I am not sure of what theories Anthony Trewavas espouses but if based in science and not hearsay, then he's ahead of most.

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

Thanks for proving my point. That "guy" was a propagator with many registrations and was speaking from direct experience. If moon phases were a common thread that he could identify and support, then it's irrelevant that some people think it's crazy.
Have you tried it? If not , then it's easy to snipe from the sidelines. I have and even now it's something I bear in mind when doing my own crosses - wherever possible. I performed 2 exact crosses months apart, same conditions. One was successful, the other not. No prizes for guessing the common thread.
In fact I make a point of proving or disproving so called common lore that doesn't make sense with direct experience as I have found that much advice is just regurgitated. The common advice against use of sphagnum moss with phals is another fallacy that persists. I always maintain that if something works in your conditions then carry on, even if the "experts" are telling you it's wrong. If you have the resources to experiment with orchids, then do so as only then does knowledge expand.

Pick one. You can't have both.

You either want to flask using voodoo moon phase tactics or you want something based in science.

You also simultaneously degrade and promote anecdotal evidence. Make up your mind dude.

[orchidsarefun]

Because you believe that it's voodoo science obviously doesn't make it so? Have you any evidence ? I tested the belief on a cross that initially didn't take and then I was successful. Do I slavishly follow that theory? No, because all my other crosses took. How many crosses have you done to be able to condemn either way?
I think you have a problem with the concept of direct evidence vs. anecdotal evidence. For example if a renowned breeder says that he has noticed that moon phases have an influence on pollination , I'm going to take notice and see if it will help. If a published science experiment in a greenhouse tells me that phals need a temperature change to bloom, I'm going to say hold on
as why is it that most of my phals bloom regardless. I was advised by many people that phals shouldn't be grown in moss. Its only after proving otherwise that I switched all to moss.
Open minded people choose what makes sense and it's not either or. In my case it's trust but verify if the issue is material.

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[isurus79]

Living in Hawaii for 10 years and being in charge of bringing this country's best speakers to Texas' largest societies means I hold great value in anecdotal evidence from experts. It also means I adapt my conditions and techniques appropriately based on these same growers' knowledge.

I'm also a biologist and I know that science is the greatest invention our species has ever come up with. You're derision towards science in the previously mentioned thread and towards the hypothetical "published science experiment" in your previous post shows me you don't hold the scientific method in as high esteem as you probably should.

Lunar phase voodoo magic towards all manner of things is probably as old as our species. People have tried to tie moon phases to human behavior and all types of silly things, including orchid breeding. Show me a paper that lunar phase predicts propagation success and I'll change my mind.

Chopping up Catasetinae to throw male flowers is a technique I've heard many times from well established Catasetinae growers, which is why I suggested it. Your opinion in welcome, but your snippiness and rudeness is not. If you want to prove a point, say it without putting others down. Especially when those others know what they're talking about.

[orchidsarefun]

I find it pointless to discuss anything with you as you love labels - "rudeness", "snippiness", "putting others down", "voodoo magic". Not to mention hyperbole such as "science is the greatest invention of our species" where I mention a science experiment I don't agree with. Yes, "a" science experiment which in your mind seems to label me a science denier. Huh? As for "hypothetical science experiment", read this
How Temperature and Photoperiod Impact Orchid Spiking | Greenhouse Grower

Again - unfortunately I have to repeat it - direct experience aka personal experience, is the best guidance as it conforms to your unique growing conditions. Btw I have attempted the single bulb advice and it made absolutely no difference. Conversely the multi growth advice, based on the "theory" that a plant needs energy to produce female flowers, also made no difference. Fitting an aluminium foil cap over a spike made no difference. More light/ less light made no difference. I have direct experience of all of these and don't need anyone to tell me otherwise. Have you?

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[isurus79]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

Btw I have attempted the single bulb advice and it made absolutely no difference. Conversely the multi growth advice, based on the "theory" that a plant needs energy to produce female flowers, also made no difference. Fitting an aluminium foil cap over a spike made no difference. More light/ less light made no difference. I have direct experience of all of these and don't need anyone to tell me otherwise. Have you?

Yes, and if you had simply not written the first two sentences in your original post and kept things polite, we could have avoided this whole diatribe that has nothing to do with Manfred's original post.

And yes, I have chopped up female flower blooming plants with success. I have also put aluminum foil caps over spikes with success. I've also put female flower blooming plants in the shade and the plant kept throwing female flowers.

"I have direct experience of all of these and don't need anyone to tell me otherwise." This sentence of yours perfectly illustrates why talking to you is not worth my time. I'm done.

[orchidsarefun]

All of a sudden you now claim direct experience whereas before you never mentioned it as the basis for your recommendations. In fact you said " is a technique I've heard many times" for chopping up Catasetinae. Now you have done this yourself with success? I stand by what I said in my original post and subsequently.


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[isurus79]

Originally Posted by isurus79

I think cutting the plant into individual bulbs will do the trick.

I've tried giving large, mature plants that produce female flowers Phal light and they still gave females. Chop 'em up!!

This is my original post. You're quoting someone else.

Thanks for playing. I recommend you just stop making yourself look silly.

[orchidsarefun]

This is what you said above.
"Chopping up Catasetinae to throw male flowers is a technique I've heard many times from well established Catasetinae growers, which is why I suggested it."

Enough with the labels as ironically every one you have used seems to hit closer to home.

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[isurus79]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

This is what you said above.
"Chopping up Catasetinae to throw male flowers is a technique I've heard many times from well established Catasetinae growers, which is why I suggested it."

Enough with the labels as ironically every one you have used seems to hit closer to home.

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In addition to chopping up plants myself, I've also heard from many growers it is a worthwhile technique. I was adding credence to my statement by discussing knowledge from other growers. You should try it.

Seriously, just stop dude. You're really looking silly, which is a label this seems to fit you quite well.

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------

This thread talks about me chopping up a Ctsm tenebrosum in 2011 because it threw female flowers. Catasetum tenebrosum

It later bloomed with male flowers, which I didn't photograph because I was out of town.

[orchidsarefun]

I thought I was being silly by quoting someone else? What happened ? Now I'm silly because I reminded you - again-that's what you said.
You also originally said " I think cutting the plant into individual plants will do the trick." You didn't say you have tried and succeeded - as you later seem to remember doing. In fact you say you "suggested it" because of what you heard from other growers that it works.
My points still stand, no matter how many times you obfuscate.

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That old thread is interesting. It doesn't however state that you did chop up the plant. However if in fact you eventually did and it worked, then congrats. It's direct evidence. I tried on 2 different species and it didn't. It may be a method worth trying but it's not infallible.