Catasetum new shoots

[orchidsarefun]

What the heck. I'm going to start a 1x per week watering on the other plant that has been kept dry for the last 2 months.

To be clear - watering only in the area of the oldest pseudobulbs, NOT anywhere near the last season's growth. I think we can all agree that this is NOT the recommended route to take and should NOT be tried by anyone who is NOT prepared to lose their entire plant....

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[bil]

Fishmom said on the other thread...
"Fred Clarke spoke at our orchid society meeting last month, and I am repeating what he said, more or less. I suspect he is simplifying for a mass audience, but he did say that the initial root growth is designed to "seek out" water and that when the roots find it, growth more-or-less stops.

I would bet that it just slows down, but what do I know? Only what I have observed in my own plants. They maintain green tips, so they may be growing slowly, but if Fred says "6 to 8" inches, it is good enough for me.

The suggestion is that these need to put out all the roots they need because they switch off after the rains come.
Would they really grow no more roots after watering? None at all?

[jcec1]

Originally Posted by bil

Fishmom said on the other thread...
"Fred Clarke spoke at our orchid society meeting last month, and I am repeating what he said, more or less. I suspect he is simplifying for a mass audience, but he did say that the initial root growth is designed to "seek out" water and that when the roots find it, growth more-or-less stops.

I would bet that it just slows down, but what do I know? Only what I have observed in my own plants. They maintain green tips, so they may be growing slowly, but if Fred says "6 to 8" inches, it is good enough for me.

The suggestion is that these need to put out all the roots they need because they switch off after the rains come.
Would they really grow no more roots after watering? None at all?

I will start by stating that I only grow a few cycnoches and cycnodes. I water when growths are only a couple of inches tall and roots about the same. This is because temperatures and light levels early in the year are far lower at this latitude and it would be months before roots were 6" to 8" long. Roots develop with moist media, and I have not witnessed them stopping. This cycnodes was started as an old pseudobulb with no roots, so root growth was all from the new pseudobulb under the conditions I described above.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by bil

Fishmom said on the other thread...
"Fred Clarke spoke at our orchid society meeting last month, and I am repeating what he said, more or less. I suspect he is simplifying for a mass audience, but he did say that the initial root growth is designed to "seek out" water and that when the roots find it, growth more-or-less stops.

I would bet that it just slows down, but what do I know? Only what I have observed in my own plants. They maintain green tips, so they may be growing slowly, but if Fred says "6 to 8" inches, it is good enough for me.

The suggestion is that these need to put out all the roots they need because they switch off after the rains come.
Would they really grow no more roots after watering? None at all?

The initial root flush come out in the beginning and represents the largest root growth. When these are small and touch water, their tips turn brown and stop growing completely. I've noticed a few other small flushes of roots coming out in the late growing season but its usually only a few.

[orchidsarefun]

Originally Posted by isurus79

The initial root flush come out in the beginning and represents the largest root growth. When these are small and touch water, their tips turn brown and stop growing completely. I've noticed a few other small flushes of roots coming out in the late growing season but its usually only a few.

Just to clarify - this may be true for external, visible roots.
However, the "largest root growth" is definitely inside the pot and occurs season long and these roots, branching extensively, are growing in a moist environment.
So, experts say that you should never get the initial roots wet - when they are reaching towards the mix - as that stops growth and causes rot. The apparent contradiction is that this is evidently not the case when the roots are in the mix.
I think we all want a kick-start to the season. I would love my plants to exit dormancy early and perhaps bloom multiple times in one year. Maybe I should be careful in what I wish for as if my experiment works I may run out of space before the weather outdoors is warm enough to place them outdoors. However I would prefer them to enter dormancy earlier as its a real problem bringing fully grown plants indoors, space-wise and also because they are prone to spider mites in my indoor conditions.

[orchidsarefun]

Another root-related tip. So I started switching to clay pots because they offer more stability to the plants. What I noticed when unpotting most of my catasetums was that the root systems felt 'greener' than those in the plastic pots. By that I mean they weren't bone dry. Further it was a job ripping the roots off the sides and bottom of the clay pots. It appears that the clay pots offer sustained moisture to the roots as well as enable the media in the pots to dry more efficiently/quicker. The bonus is that the pseudobulb root system from the previous season already supports the plant once new growth establishes. By implication then if I don't repot every year I have plants that are stable in their respective pots.
Of course then you have to consider old media vs new media potential issues ........

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[bil]

Originally Posted by isurus79

The initial root flush come out in the beginning and represents the largest root growth. When these are small and touch water, their tips turn brown and stop growing completely. I've noticed a few other small flushes of roots coming out in the late growing season but its usually only a few.

Damn, but this is interesting. It has just struck a memory. Now I have heard someone saying that you shouldn't harvest a Den nobile keiki until the roots are a certain length, and that's pretty well what I always do, and so far I have had no problems.
Now, a few months ago, I was experimenting with mounting Den phals on mounts, and I had the one plant whose keiki roots were lavish, and sure enough it has done well. The second while having a lot of roots, they were all very, very small, but I harvested it anyway because I was taking the whole cane onto the mount so what's the problem, right?
Wrong. It has sat there while its twin with the long roots put out roots like crazy, and since being moved, the roots have not grown a single millimeter, nor has it put out any more.

So, can we say that short roots exhibit this sensitivity to water for some crazy reason, but once they are safely 'underground' water ceases to be a problem, and they will grow as per normal?

---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

Another root-related tip. So I started switching to clay pots because they offer more stability to the plants. What I noticed when unpotting most of my catasetums was that the root systems felt 'greener' than those in the plastic pots. By that I mean they weren't bone dry. Further it was a job ripping the roots off the sides and bottom of the clay pots. It appears that the clay pots offer sustained moisture to the roots as well as enable the media in the pots to dry more efficiently/quicker. The bonus is that the pseudobulb root system from the previous season already supports the plant once new growth establishes. By implication then if I don't repot every year I have plants that are stable in their respective pots.
Of course then you have to consider old media vs new media potential issues ........

Interesting. So were you effectively keeping them damp in the dormant season? This isn't the first time that I have heard this concept of keeping the roots alive over the dormant season.
Anyone else got input on this?

[u bada]

I can't give input as i've just acquired my first catasetum last fall...

It's beginning to sprout a new growth right now and eventually, I hope, will start new roots. I think I'll follow along the lines of not watering till roots are a certain length... but along the same lines of questions toward what to do with old roots and media?

i visited Fred at his greenhouses last fall when i got this guy, and he grows almost all of his in moss, says it's the best material... but he's also mentioned people will completely cut off al the old roots off the pbs when dormant... although he didn't verify if he advocates that highly or not (he didn't say it was bad practice anyway)... so if you're "suppose" to take out all the old roots then i guess that means the old roots are basically dead anyway and aren't going to grow again? is there anyone that does that here?

Personally, i don't do well with sphag moss. it goes bad real quick so if I'm going to repot it I guess I'm going to have to do it soon, but to do that I'm going to have to wet the media... so not sure what to do with it, or when to do it....

so if anyone could give input to that as well, that would be appreciated-

[fishmom]

I pot mine in a fine oncidium mix, with a little broken-up sphag mixed in for extra moisture retention. I do my repotting early in the new year (like starting now) as soon as I can see where the new p-bulbs are going to place themselves, but before any roots start. I just want to place the plant in the pot to the best advantage.

I don't clip off all the old roots, I use them to help hold the plant in place when I repot into the dry mix. If the mix sinks down a bit when I start watering, I can always add a little more.

Bil, interesting about the den keiki roots. I'm looking at a keiki right now wondering if I should pot it up. Maybe I'll wait a bit.

[bil]

Originally Posted by u bada

Personally, i don't do well with sphag moss. it goes bad real quick so if I'm going to repot it I guess I'm going to have to do it soon, but to do that I'm going to have to wet the media... so not sure what to do with it, or when to do it....

so if anyone could give input to that as well, that would be appreciated-

OK. When it comes to moss, I am very clear. I simply don't like moss in pots. You have to be so very careful when you water yada, yada, yada.
and yet. On mounts moss is great to give a water retaining pad. For Stans, moss in a shallow basket is the best. It dries out so fast that they really need watering every day in summer.
Looking at Catasetums, I started in fine bark, but I am noticing that fine bark is very prone to fungus buildup, except, oddly when it is really wet, ie Paphs and phrags.

So, to give the best option, and use moss, which seems to be recommended for catasetums, I use baskets like these with a mesh insert to hold the moss in. This way I am hoping that the moss won't rot. After all the moss with the Stans doesn't seem at all bad after 6 months.

---------- Post added at 07:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------

Originally Posted by fishmom

Bil, interesting about the den keiki roots. I'm looking at a keiki right now wondering if I should pot it up. Maybe I'll wait a bit.

Well, with Den phals, my advice is this.

1. Wait until the roots are at least an inch long.
2. Harvest the entire cane.
3. Do not cut the keikis off, but mount or pot the whole cane.