Cycnoches: Life Span of Plants and Flowers

[NYCorchidman]

While I'm at it, here's another one.

My very first plant of this group was Cycnodes Golden Shower, a very beautiful bright yellow flowers with banana scent.
The thing is the flowers only lasted for barely ten days or so. I was told this is quite normal for plants in catasetum group.

Then I was gifted with Monni. Black Magic Witchcraft Millennium (I know the order of the name is really messed up, but I just remember the components obvisouly but you know what plant I'm talking about), whose flowers also lasted short time, like ten days.
but this is not cycnoches, I'm just mentioned anyways as it is catasetum family.

Both of them rotted dead in the following summer after the new growth had like 8 leaves. I know.
So I lost interest in them.

This year, I got myself two plants of Fred Clark's creation.
Jumbo Cooper x cooperi (not yet flowered although it's trying) and Cascading Sawn x warscewiczii which is now fading after being in bloom for well over a month!

Cascading Sawn x warscewiczii only gave me two female flowers and the rest of the spike dried up and blasted.
The flowers had strong banana scent, which woke me up every morning. I loved it!!!

Now, those two flowers have been in bloom well over a month. Is that normal? I mean I like it, but I thought these flowers do not last over two weeks usually.

Another important question, as I searched on the internet, I found information saying that cycnoches is a short lived plant lasting barely three years.
It says the plant grows and flowers the first year, and then it will grow a new pb and flower again the second year.
The third year, typically plants will start to deteriorate.

I find this hard to believe because my cycnodes and both my current cycnoches were all first time bloomer on their third pbs.
What can I expect now? They will flower two more years and then rot away?

How long do your cycnoches last?
Also, is dividing into separate pb each fall a way to keep them going for many years?

I'm curious.

I of course first have to learn to keep these plants from rotting before worrying about keeping them going for many years. lol

Speaking of rot, I read that cycnoches is known to be rot prone among the catasetum group, unfortunately this is about the only type in the group that I find attractive.

Some pictures below.

The color is hard to capture.
It is yellowish green with heavy brown hue all over on the front side, and the back side is much much darker reddish brown.
Smells very strong of banana with some kind of spice, but overall very pleasant.

[Leafmite]

That is a beauty!
I just bought a new Cycnoches. I had a Wine Delight 'Jem' for about four years and someone must have kicked the pots under the car and it didn't survive getting flattened. :|
As that was my only one, I think you should let someone more experienced give you advice.

[NYCorchidman]

Sorry to hear that.
Did you leave all the pbs on the whole time??
I should have divided and saved some just in case, but who would have thought?

By the way, do you know if all the Cycn. Wine Delight are mericlone of the FCC cultivar 'Jem'??
I have one but it just says Wine Delight.
It bloomed for the first time this year and it has total of three pbs.
If you can't find a replacement, I might give you mine or cut off a piece.

[orchidsarefun]

I have a Cyc Golden Showers and the not-so-funny thing is its on 3 pbulbs and is not doing as well as in past years. OrchidWiz says these prefer nighttime temps 75-85f and as an indoor grower ( or probably even a greenhouse grower ), I can't meet this requirement. I did have it outdoors in Summer but it didn't like it at all, hardly did anything. So - maybe these can be grown for up to 3 years, but then deteriorate because of the temp issue. I will know for sure in a few months. It would be a pity as I just bought another - cross is Jean E Monnier x Cynoches Chlorochilon.

[Leafmite]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Sorry to hear that.
Did you leave all the pbs on the whole time??
I should have divided and saved some just in case, but who would have thought?

By the way, do you know if all the Cycn. Wine Delight are mericlone of the FCC cultivar 'Jem'??
I have one but it just says Wine Delight.
It bloomed for the first time this year and it has total of three pbs.
If you can't find a replacement, I might give you mine or cut off a piece.

I was pretty unhappy when I found them.

I don't know if all the commonly sold Wine Delights are the same. I haven't seen another cultivar for sale, though. Hopefully, someone will chime in.
You should hold on to your Wine Delight.
Here is what I know about them. Most of our OS, during the growing season (hot summer), give the members of this group plenty of light, fertilizer and water. Once the leaves drop, they un-pot them and just stick them in a drawer or box where they are dry and in the dark. In the spring, they pot them up and start watering when there are new roots. I found that if you plant it on top of the moss so that only the roots go down into the moss, they don't have a problem with rot. Also, I found the best combination for good growth of the roots seemed to be small basket pots crammed with NZ sphagnum moss. Hope this helps you.
My new one is Cyncnoches pentadactylon. Every time I buy one of these, it is quite clear that they were divided into single growths from which a new one grows.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Now, those two flowers have been in bloom well over a month. Is that normal?

Yes this is normal with female flowers, which you've got!

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Another important question, as I searched on the internet, I found information saying that cycnoches is a short lived plant lasting barely three years.
It says the plant grows and flowers the first year, and then it will grow a new pb and flower again the second year.
The third year, typically plants will start to deteriorate.

Not true, though short lived plants in this group is one reason why many people divide these plants fairly regularly (sometimes every year or every other year).

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Speaking of rot, I read that cycnoches is known to be rot prone among the catasetum group, unfortunately this is about the only type in the group that I find attractive.

I lost a bunch of Cycnoches to rot when I lived in Hawaii, though winter and early spring is the wet season there. Cutting off the roots each winter is one technique many people use to help prevent rot.

[estación seca]

There is a lot of cultural information on the Catasetinae group of orchids at the Sunset Valley Orchids Web site. Proprietor Fred Clarke talked to our club last fall. Among other things he said this group loves hot summer nights, hot summer days, high summer humidity, lots of summer water and fertilizer and completely dry winter rests.

[katrina]

It could be the saying that they last only 3 yrs has more to do w/the individual growths rather than the plant itself. I have that sort of cycle w/many of them. Growth and bloom, sit there and do nothing the next year, the following year (3rd yr) they shrivel as the newest growth(s) develops. If I divide down to smaller than 3 growths then I see the previous year's growth being consumed as the new one(s) is developing.

Also, per Fred, dividing the plants down to 2 or 3 growths helps w/getting male flowers vs female. In the past I let my plants just grow, grow, and grow...like I do w/ my other orchids thinking it'll help w/bigger and better blooms but I started getting mostly female flowers. After some email discussions with Fred I discovered that the bigger and healthier some of these are the more likely they are to produce female flowers. Therefore, dividing them down can help ensure male flowers. It's not fail-proof (as I've discovered) but it can help.

[NYCorchidman]

Why don't you divide the plant, then just in case the plant goes downhill? I mean the divisions might fail, too, but there's nothing to lose either way, right?

By the way, I could never give it that high of temperature at night. Forget it! hahahaha

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

I have a Cyc Golden Showers and the not-so-funny thing is its on 3 pbulbs and is not doing as well as in past years. OrchidWiz says these prefer nighttime temps 75-85f and as an indoor grower ( or probably even a greenhouse grower ), I can't meet this requirement. I did have it outdoors in Summer but it didn't like it at all, hardly did anything. So - maybe these can be grown for up to 3 years, but then deteriorate because of the temp issue. I will know for sure in a few months. It would be a pity as I just bought another - cross is Jean E Monnier x Cynoches Chlorochilon.

---------- Post added at 11:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 AM ----------

All the plants in this group I have bought seemed to be first flowering plants.

Anyways, my Wine Delight has three pbs, two rather wrinkly smaller unbloomed ones and this tall one that flowered this year. The leaves are now fading and I'm still hoping it will flower one more time before the winter, but will see.

I plan on dividing this up into separate pieces and see what happens.
I will send you a piece if they sprout. but let me bother Katrina a bit more and get more ideas on how to correctly do this.

I know the growth cycle of these plants, and from what I read, most people kill these by watering too early too much. I have never had this tissue even though I watered occasionally during the "rest" period.
My Golden Shower had its rest, and the new growth grew very large with about 8 leaves or so. I felt so good about it, but then one day, the base of this new growth rotted and that's when I tossed the whole thing.

I wonder if the night temperature wasn't hot enough as someone mentioned it needs 75-85 F at night, but I have no desire to keep my apartment that high at night any time of the year.

Then, again, I don't think that might be correct, because I have not seen that mentioned anywhere, and if it is something very important regarding their culture, I would think that that piece of info would be included in the care sheet.

Anyways, I'll keep you informed regarding how my Wine Delight does.

Originally Posted by Leafmite

I was pretty unhappy when I found them.

I don't know if all the commonly sold Wine Delights are the same. I haven't seen another cultivar for sale, though. Hopefully, someone will chime in.
You should hold on to your Wine Delight.
Here is what I know about them. Most of our OS, during the growing season (hot summer), give the members of this group plenty of light, fertilizer and water. Once the leaves drop, they un-pot them and just stick them in a drawer or box where they are dry and in the dark. In the spring, they pot them up and start watering when there are new roots. I found that if you plant it on top of the moss so that only the roots go down into the moss, they don't have a problem with rot. Also, I found the best combination for good growth of the roots seemed to be small basket pots crammed with NZ sphagnum moss. Hope this helps you.
My new one is Cyncnoches pentadactylon. Every time I buy one of these, it is quite clear that they were divided into single growths from which a new one grows.

---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------

Just to make sure, are we talking about cycnoches only or other genus in the group?
I think catasetum and clowesia grow large without rotting easily?

Anyways, no offense, but I do not like them. lol
I only like cycnoches, and let's focus on just cycnoches here to prevent confusion on my part (and some other readers).

By the way, Fred did say good culture and large plants tend to make female flowers, but he also didn't specify which genus.

Someone in the past mentioned high light brings female flowers rather than male flowers.
I have no idea if that's true.

Anyways, when do you divide the plant?
During the rest, or after the rest when there's new growth sprouting in the spring?

I have read that some people also take them out of the pots and keep them bone dry during the winter, but the culture sheet says water when the pb wrinkles.
I kept mine in the pot and watered occacionally. No rot.

Also, what mix do you use?
All the ones I bought came in this tiny pot with sphagnum moss tightly packed it.
A condition phals or other orchids might lose their roots quckily, but these seem to do just fine.
I am still worried every time I water it, but the roots never rot! So I guess keeping the roots very moist or wet is the way to go?

Originally Posted by katrina

It could be the saying that they last only 3 yrs has more to do w/the individual growths rather than the plant itself. I have that sort of cycle w/many of them. Growth and bloom, sit there and do nothing the next year, the following year (3rd yr) they shrivel as the newest growth(s) develops. If I divide down to smaller than 3 growths then I see the previous year's growth being consumed as the new one(s) is developing.

Also, per Fred, dividing the plants down to 2 or 3 growths helps w/getting male flowers vs female. In the past I let my plants just grow, grow, and grow...like I do w/ my other orchids thinking it'll help w/bigger and better blooms but I started getting mostly female flowers. After some email discussions with Fred I discovered that the bigger and healthier some of these are the more likely they are to produce female flowers. Therefore, dividing them down can help ensure male flowers. It's not fail-proof (as I've discovered) but it can help.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Just to make sure, are we talking about cycnoches only or other genus in the group?
I think catasetum and clowesia grow large without rotting easily?

Any of them can rot relatively easily if watered at the wrong time. I have grown all them to large sizes and I've never seen any develop rot because they were large. It's watering at the wrong time that usually causes that problem.

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Anyways, no offense, but I do not like them. lol
I only like cycnoches, and let's focus on just cycnoches here to prevent confusion on my part (and some other readers).

I was taking about the group in general but, yes, I've noticed the 3yr cycle in Cycnoches, Cycnodes and Ctsm. Not so strong in clowesia or straight mormodes.

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Someone in the past mentioned high light brings female flowers rather than male flowers.
I have no idea if that's true.

I have heard the same thing and I grow all of mine in very bright light but have also shaded the developing spikes and still ended up w/females.

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Anyways, when do you divide the plant?
During the rest, or after the rest when there's new growth sprouting in the spring?

I have divided my plants when they are dormant, in the spring before they break dormancy, and just after new growths have started...and I have noticed no difference between the various times. After they break dormancy I have broken off new growths so I switched to doing them the other times but you do have to be careful w/the water when they are dormant. I get them wet and I do water the medium in but I try not to let the pbulbs remain wet for long.

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

I have read that some people also take them out of the pots and keep them bone dry during the winter, but the culture sheet says water when the pb wrinkles.
I kept mine in the pot and watered occacionally. No rot.

I keep mine in pots and because the lights are so drying...I also lightly water every so often in the winter. About once every 2 weeks (or thereabouts) I will drizzle a little water around the outside edges of the pots to give them some "dew". If I don't do this then I end up w/shriveled growths and I don't think they are as healthy when they break dormancy. I do make sure that I'm not getting water on the growths because water trapped in the dried pieces on the growth can cause rot and more easily in some than others. [I learned this the hard way early on!]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

Also, what mix do you use? All the ones I bought came in this tiny pot with sphagnum moss tightly packed it.
A condition phals or other orchids might lose their roots quckily, but these seem to do just fine.

I have used just about everything from straight sphag to a large chunky mix to fine chunky mix to a terrestrial mix and all have proven to work well for me. IME, these guys just really want to grow and if the seasons are followed, they are given enough water and light when active...they will grow in just about anything.

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

I am still worried every time I water it, but the roots never rot! So I guess keeping the roots very moist or wet is the way to go?

When they are actively growing...you bet! I even set them in saucers of light fert water during their actively growing times and they soak it up like crazy. I have never had rotted roots from too much water...when they are actively growing. Lots of water, light, and heavy on the fert = happy plants.