Catasetinae not doing well

[Dalachin]

Out of my six from Fred last fall, I think I’ve killed one (cynoches prntadactylon, the puny spring growth succumbed to mites) and it look like I’m about to kill a couple more. Catasetinae ivanae and (Ctmds. Darkonium 'Ebony Beauty' FCC/AOS x Ctsm. Orchidglade 'Davie Ranches' AM/AOS) both are small and thin and dropping leaves.

They are outside on the porch, and my best guess is that they did not appreciate the lows in the mid 50s that we experienced in the last week. Do you think that might be the case? I have some Cattleyas and oncidiums out there and no one else seems affected.

Next week there are more forecast lows in the high 50s. Maybe bring these two in? Keep them wet? Not good candidates for porch growing in central ny?

I generally don’t know why I got such weak growth after dormancy. I was pretty strict, didn’t water at all, but I did keep them in the tent in hopes that the humidity would help. Maybe I should have watered a bit more during dormancy so that the bulbs had more energy?

Pics: ivanae, ctmds, and pileatum for comparison.

[Canadienne]

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

[/COLOR]I’m new to catasetums, bought 4 this spring. I’ve read that they don’t like temps to go below 18celcius at night. Mine are outside on the porch in full sun all day. I take them in to the house at night when temps go below 70F ( around 20 C). So yours likely got too cold and stopped growing. No idea if that can be rectified or not. I’m not terribly knowledgeable about the catasetums but I did read up about them quite a bit.

I started watering when the roots were about 10 cm long and in a pot with layers of small stone at the bottom (for weight so it don’t tip over when it gets too top heavy);Lecca and the top third spagnum. And lots of aeration holes in the plastic pot.
I Increase watering as they grow. They were in a sunny south window untill they went outside 3rd week of may. As I’m in southern Ontario we too had some cool nights and more coming and I do put them in the house then.
Mine are SVO as well, wonder if yours didnt have enough sunlight once they came out of dormancy?

Hopefully there will be someone with a lot more experience then me that can tell you what went wrong.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 PM ----------

[estación seca]

Fred makes a big point in his talks that these like warm summer nights. Many will never see temperatures as low as 50 F / 10C in habitat. The only other problems during the growing season are mites and underwatering.

[Jmoney]

as much as we want to respect dormancy, I believe that too little water will kill plants too. I made that mistake and killed a small dentigrianum hybrid due to underwatering. thing just shrivelled up.

There was talk on the FB catasetinae page that sometimes you do need to give a little water. this spring my small cycnoches (cooperi, penta) had the same issue and I just started giving them some water as they appeared to be ready to shrivel up and die otherwise. mature plants, of course, may not need this.

hard to tell from those pics, but the first one looks a little like cold damage?

[DaylightFirefly]

I am no expert. Just here to read and share my experience.
I have got 4 catasetinae from SVO last fall. Have 2 growing fine. One is in the state similar to that on the photo. One unfortunately is gone.

I feel like what Jmoney said is the cause of my lack of success with the two unfortunate plants. They were too small and probably needed higher humidity to survive long winter. I tried to follow recommendations Fred sends out, but I do not think I managed to reach that optimal condition to keep this new type of orchid alive.

I managed to keep all four indoors until outdoor wether got really hot. Keeping fingers crossed that the third plant will somehow survive. But I am sure flowers are not going to happen this year on any of my catasetinae.

[Dalachin]

Thanks all for your advice. Catasetinae definitely are a challenge! Next year I think I will have to try giving a little water to small, immature ones— especially if I end up picking up any new ones in august. I also really like the suggestion (from a different thread) to be ready to protect new growths from mites with predatory mites.

Lesson learned on the lack of night cold tolerance, especially with weaker ones.

[Keysguy]

I have a little experiment going here in central New Hampshire this summer.

In short. I have a couple of Catasetinae hybrids in my FL Keys shade house that had become very overgrown.

When I re-potted them this spring I took a half dozen of the old and still dormant back bulbs off each one and brought them north with me to see if I could get them to sprout new growth. Mother nature screwed up my parent plants as we had a fairly damp, cool fall and winter and not at all our typical dry season. My plants stayed in the shade house with their leaves until mid Feb when I finally pulled them out and stuck them under the house out of the weather. They were very late sprouting new growth because of that so the re-potting was a good 6 weeks later than normal but when I left in late May they were off to a good start.

I'll take some pics tomorrow and give a full report on the back bulb experiment but here is what I would recommend.

I have been bringing mine into the house on evenings when temp is predicted to go below 55F. They are potted in the same mix I use for Phrags, Paphs and thin broadleafed orchids like Oncidiums, Zygo's etc. These Cat's need a lot of water but they do NOT want to sit in it. I use a mix of fine bark, sponge rock & charcoal mixed with A FEW sprigs of sphagnum. I soak them every other day if it doesn't rain. I add in a couple layers of nutricote as I re-pot and do my regular broad weekly feeding program in addition to the nutricote. Summer is all about rain, food and warmth for maximum growth. Cool nights and wet roots will wreak havoc on these things. They are under what I estimate to be about 30% shade up here.

Yours look like they are potted in sphagnum Dalachin? That's likely not helping you in your conditions.

I'm hoping I can keep mine going until I can get them back to the Keys in Oct where they should still get 1 or 2 more good months of growth before dormancy.

BTW- I have never seen any kind of bug on any of mine. I just do a full shade house orthene spray weekly for 3 weeks twice a year (fall & spring). But my favorite weapon is I have phenomenal natural air flow through my shade house as it's about 100' back from the ocean.

[isurus79]

That first plant is toast, the second one could rebound, and the third one looks good. Probably time to water the third one and keep it very warm and bright.

[Dalachin]

So they are both giving me a second chance… small new growths. Any advice? Clearly, keep them above 65 F (they now have a place in my tented orchid shelves). Maybe, keep them on the dry side until the growths are larger? Try for more humidity? Watch for mites? Anything else?

First pic is ivanae, second is the darkonium x whatever.

[Canadienne]

Isurus79 on this forum has a good video on how he grows his catasetums. I followed that video as I am new to catasetums as well. Maybe it’ll give you some answers to your questions.