how many years *in good care* till cats bloom? - Orchid Board

tmoney · #1 10-07-2022, 12:44 PM

ok catasetum peeps...a couple very vague, possibly unanswerable questions.

how long do catasetums take, given good care, until you can expect first blooms?

we ask because our fdk black pearls have 5 canes (including this years growth) but no evidence of prior blooming. we got them last summer, and neither spiked. this year, they have both put on canes that are 2x as large as previous years. quite happy with their growth and hoping that perhaps we may have some flowers. but it seems odd that neither have bloomed, even in pro orchid nursery care.

i've watched a couple vids with fred saying they bloom pretty young. so what gives? also, for these plants specifically, do they start to spike after they drop their leaves or will they begin before they drop? just want to know when to give up hope for flowers this year.

neither have dropped any leaves yet, but they have stopped growing and are in the plumping up phase. thanks for any input!

3rdMaestro · #2 10-07-2022, 01:19 PM

I only have experience with one Cstm, which is a Fdk After Dark “Sunset Valley Orchids” that I got from an orchid show. It bloomed when it got 4 canes, towards the beginning of fall (about now.) However, I had it growing for a couple of years with no activity. It did not bloom until I let it spend the summer outside, getting pure morning sunlight on its leaves, shade falling over it starting at noon. Just to check, I grew it strictly indoors this year under lights, and it is showing no signs of blooming this year. Based on last year, I’m throwing in the towel for mine to bloom this year.

Edit: Just want to point out that our weather is different from yours in DE, so if you’re growing them exposed to outside conditions, there might still be hope this year, who knows?

Clawhammer · #3 10-07-2022, 01:26 PM

There are a wide variety of bloom times and frequencies among this alliance but based on your description your plant should have bloomed by now.

I have acquired 40+ catasetum alliance seedlings from SVO over 4 years. 10% bloom the first year, 85% the second year. The only one I had not bloom year two was a Catasetum Lucis, which I believe is known to take longer.

mook1178 · #4 10-07-2022, 01:28 PM

I have a black pearl that is on its 6th or 7th season. This year it put out 2 bulbs. I have yet to see it bloom. I bought it from Odom's orchids as a meristem(sp?) clone.

Fingers crossed for this year.
My other Ctsm bought from Fred usually the next year, they bloom.

Roberta · #5 10-07-2022, 02:06 PM

I have had Catasetums bloom on very small plants. However, Fredclarkeara is a very complex intergeneric so the same rules don't necessarily apply. I have both 'After Dark' and 'SVO' ... 'After Dark' is, after some years, not all that robust. Has bloomed maybe twice in quite a few years. But 'SVO' had to get rather huge to finally bloom. When it did, "Oh baby!'

Another consideration... when you get Catasetinae from SVO these days, they're all seed-grown. The Fdk After Dark plants are all mericlones unless you paid A LOT of money, and I wonder if that slows them down. If you got one from someone other than SVO it could even be a clone of a clone. So the "rules" likely are different.

estación seca · #6 10-07-2022, 02:28 PM

How much light do they get? How much are you watering and fertilizing?

Rothrock42 · #7 10-07-2022, 03:24 PM

I have about 20 different species and hybrids that I have grow inside under lights, and generally they have done well and bloomed for me the first or second year.

Other folks in my society have given me many of them because "I can't grow/bloom this, but you're so good with catesetums." Again those have usually required a year or two to bloom for me.

I think one of the key things here in the Pacific NW is that even in the summers our night-time outdoor temps are pretty low -- commonly in the low 60s/upper 50s -- even when the daytime temp is upper 80s or 90s.

So in addition to what others have said about light, water, and fertilizer, I would add that, in my experience, higher night-time temps might be a factor.

tmoney · #8 10-07-2022, 03:49 PM

hey all, thanks for the replies...

hmmm, well...i am back to "not so optimistic for blooms this year". we had them indoors all summer, but right up against the south window in full sun for about 7 hours a day. watered them 2x per week (but not sure how much water they got in july since we were gone). heaviest ferts of any of our orchids, half strength each watering (with an occasional flush when i felt like it). temps, in that sun were probly about 80'ish i'm guessing (?) on avg. we reduced fertilizers last month, and dropped watering to once a week now. they are still super green.

based on a comment from earlier this year we started eyeing for spikes last month.

and based on these few comments i am starting to rethink our desire to venture into the catasetums! i was hopeful because the canes they grew this year are so much bigger than last year (and the small first 3). oh well...if they don't produce this year they will be out on the balcony with those pesky dendrobiums come next summer!!!!!!!

thanks again for the input!

3rdMaestro · #9 10-07-2022, 04:43 PM

I have to admit, the smell of any Fdk was well worth the wait.

Roberta · #10 10-07-2022, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmoney

hey all, thanks for the replies...

hmmm, well...i am back to "not so optimistic for blooms this year". we had them indoors all summer, but right up against the south window in full sun for about 7 hours a day. watered them 2x per week (but not sure how much water they got in july since we were gone). heaviest ferts of any of our orchids, half strength each watering (with an occasional flush when i felt like it). temps, in that sun were probly about 80'ish i'm guessing (?) on avg. we reduced fertilizers last month, and dropped watering to once a week now. they are still super green.

based on a comment from earlier this year we started eyeing for spikes last month.

and based on these few comments i am starting to rethink our desire to venture into the catasetums! i was hopeful because the canes they grew this year are so much bigger than last year (and the small first 3). oh well...if they don't produce this year they will be out on the balcony with those pesky dendrobiums come next summer!!!!!!!

thanks again for the input!

Patience, patience. I use time-release fert on my Catasetinae, and it seems to help - a much heavier dose of fertilizer than anything else except Cyms (which get the same). Liquid fertilizer regimen that works for other orchids just doesn't cut it, and I don't have time to give special treatment to the Catasetinae. But it makes sense that these need a LOT more fertilizer than other orchids - they grow very, very fast during the growing season, every year they reinvent themselves. Their growth habit is more like a tomato plant than an orchid (which is usually more like 1 leaf per year). And fertilizer is needed for growth.