Black pearl catasetum - root rot survival - now what?

[bunnylotus]

Hi everyone-

This poor catasetum orchid of mine! I have had it for almost five years a gift from my husband, and it has had quite the journey. Lots of new growths, no flowers, survived an ant infestation, a mites infestation, and this past year grew me a huge bulb (no flower spike ), and oddly when that bulb was still active (had all leaves) it started growing another bulb!!

I learned (the hard way) that you’re supposed to cut off the dead/old roots every time with dormancy, and hadn’t done that…and well the dang thing got rotten moldy nastiness on the roots for the new growth and spread to all the older /dead roots.

I was able to remove the mold and also got rid of all the dead roots, and the catasetum actually split into two sets of bulbs (figured this is normal and can happen). See pics. A few of the super old bulbs died off.

Sadly the new growth is super weak, and kind of squishy (completely green but definitely not firm). I figured obviously with the rot it experienced and now it has no way of getting nutrients/water, makes sense. I have tied it to the most recent bulb in the meantime. Is this normal considering things?

Mostly, What I want to know is what next? Do I just let both sets of bulbs “chill”? Some of them look a little brown on the bottom (firm not squishy) - should I remove them or just wait and see? I feel bad, the orchid keeps having so many set backs. Frankly, I find it the hardest one to take care of.

Any advice? Do the sets seem viable? The one with the newer growths I feel like will be okay - but the set of the older three…thoughts?

Thanks everyone!

-Bunnylotus

edit: uploaded pictures

[Roberta]

Alas, this is totally the wrong time to be messing with roots (or even unpotting the plant) The time for that is in the winter when they are dormant. I don't cut roots, even old ones. And I have no problem. If you get root rot, you may have been starting watering too soon - while dormant these need to be DRY. Put it back in its pot, and hope that it recovers well enough to get through this year. Watering should happen once new roots get to be 3-4 inches. But the old roots are still good for a year or two. IF you have cut them, you have reduced this plant's chances significantly. IF it doesn't make it, get another, and read through the Catasetinae sub-forum for some excellent advice, especially the videos from isurus79.

[isurus79]

I agree with Roberta!

Next step for me would be to get these outside on a patio with strong morning lights so they could benefit from the heat. Hopefully that spurs them to send out new growths! You might get another flush of new roots from the new growth.

[bunnylotus]

Alas my long reply didn’t go through I got logged out for typing too long lol.

TLDR - I think it got mold because it got too cold and dark in my house and the moisture wreaked havoc. The roots were definitely mature enough. I’ve gone through the growth cycle for this orchid now for five years, so I think it was the conditions that promoted it. Perhaps also leftover old medium / old roots packed tightly together.

Either way it’s a super important and sentimental orchid to me despite the fact that I’ve never gotten it to bloom. First Christmas with my boyfriend (now husband) got for me. Felt so awful when I discovered the mold I just kind of got anxious and wanted to get rid of it (and it was everywhere. Ugh.

Are you saying you’re against root cutting at all or just at the time in which I cut the roots? Because agree yes normally wouldn’t have done this at all while the plant was still active but I was super worried it was going to rot the bulbs. Felt rather dire at the time to handle
Promptly. If I’m honest from the time I watered to the time I discovered it may have been awhile.

Either way, what have you done when you get mold/rot in your orchids? What would you have done differently?

Also I don’t think anyone answered my question regarding the black spots on the pseudobulbs - should I be concerned? Just leave it alone?

Last pt - I will be passing on putting the orchid outside. I did that once with a different orchid and got burned (no pun intended) and will not be doing it again. I’m rather forgetful so it’s just not a good combo.

Thanks everyone.

Edit:

Would using any of Rays seaweed solution be worthwhile to try?

[Roberta]

I don't think I have ever had needed to cut roots on Catasetinae, unless maybe to trim really old dead dry ones to get plant into new reasonably-sized pot.. Clearly yours were not dry during dormancy, and that is critical. My smaller ones are in sphagnum and they are very crispy during that time. The oldest roots might be dry and papery... if I tug and they come off, fine, the plant didn't need them. But isurus79 has pointed out that 1 or 2 year old roots are still helping the plant. Again, you don't get rot if it is dry like it is supposed to be. Even old medium, if dry, is no particular problem... when you repot in winter just shake it off. And during the time when it needs water (active growth) even old medium isn't a problem - the plant wants to be sopping wet. If the plant is damp when it shouldn't be, just dry it out. Lack of water does wonders in terms of controlling mold and rots. When these are dormant, just put them someplace in the house (so they stay reasonably warm) where you totally ignore them. Maybe on a high shelf so you don't even look at them. Dry means "no water at all" until new growth and new roots are well along. Then you don't get mold or rot. As for the mold you found, you could have just rinsed it off under the faucet and then dried the plant.

Looking back at the photos, the new growth look big (and of course with the roots gone I have no idea how long they were) but it's still immature (leaves have not started to spread out yet) So any watering was too soon at any rate. It is far better to wait a little long on the watering than to do it soo soon. Seems cruel, but abuse is what these things need.

And now, it needs heat and light, if it is to have any chance. Put it outside where it is shaded from direct sun perhaps, but in the growing season it needs these. And hope for new roots. Good luck.

[bunnylotus]

Originally Posted by Roberta

I don' think I have ever had needed to cut roots on Catasetinae, unless maybe to trim really old dead dry ones to get plant into new reasonably-sized pot.. Clearly yours were not dry during dormancy, and that is critical. My smaller ones are in sphagnum and they are very crispy during that time. The oldest roots might be dry and papery... if I tug and they come off, fine, the plant didn't need them. But isurus 79 has pointed out that 1 or 2 year old roots are still helping the plant. Again, you don't get rot if it is dry like it is supposed to be. Even old medium, if dry, is no particular problem... when you repot in winter just shake it off. And during the time when it needs water (active growth) even old medium isn't a problem - the plant wants to be sopping wet. If the plant is damp when it shouldn't be, just dry it out. Lack of water does wonders in terms of controlling mold and rots. When these are dormant, just put them someplace in the house (so they stay reasonably warm) where you totally ignore them. Maybe on a high shelf so you don't even look at them. Dry means "no water at all" until new growth and new roots are well along. Then you don't get mold or rot. As for the mold you found, you could have just rinsed it off under the faucet and then dried the plant.

Thanks

[isurus79]

Also, remember that mold and rot are different creatures. The presence of mold on orchid roots typically has zero effect on the roots (or the plant, for that matter) and does not trigger rot. If you saw mold and cut off the roots, that may be a teachable moment where you try to avoid that in the future! These things happen, so learning from them is important!

If you can get a shady spot outside for the divisions with no new growths, I really think that will help get at least one of them back on track. Is it possible to get them underneath an oak tree? Even potting up the division with the new growth and getting it outside will do wonders for the plant!

I don't see any black spots on the bulbs in the photos, but I suspect it's the typical discoloration that happens sometimes. Nothing to worry about from the photos.

[estación seca]

Go to the Sunset Valley Orchids Web page. Near the top look for cultivation information. Go there and read about Catasetinae.

[bunnylotus]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Also, remember that mold and rot are different creatures. The presence of mold on orchid roots typically has zero effect on the roots (or the plant, for that matter) and does not trigger rot. If you saw mold and cut off the roots, that may be a teachable moment where you try to avoid that in the future! These things happen, so learning from them is important!

If you can get a shady spot outside for the divisions with no new growths, I really think that will help get at least one of them back on track. Is it possible to get them underneath an oak tree? Even potting up the division with the new growth and getting it outside will do wonders for the plant!

I don't see any black spots on the bulbs in the photos, but I suspect it's the typical discoloration that happens sometimes. Nothing to worry about from the photos.

Thanks! This was very helpful. I appreciate it.

We have a pecan tree outside, I could put it under.or behind the porch column in front of our house by my hibiscus. It is over 100 here (I’m in texas) will that be okay? It might get to be 110 with humidity (kill me!).

Would kelp max be useful at all in this circumstance? And, should I water it?

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by bunnylotus

Thanks! This was very helpful. I appreciate it.

We have a pecan tree outside, I could put it under.or behind the porch column in front of our house by my hibiscus. It is over 100 here (I’m in texas) will that be okay? It might get to be 110 with humidity (kill me!).

Would kelp max be useful at all in this circumstance? And, should I water it?

Just a note, isurus79 is also in Texas (Austin) so his advice is based on knowing a lot about your conditions.

I'll let him jump in on the specific advice... but I would expect that you should not water, since there are no roots to speak of. (If you water, you will rot whatever is left) Your hope is for the plant to grow some new ones - that again need to get to that 3-4 inch length before you give them water. Those big pseudobulbs are the reserves that the plant will depend upon to generate the strength to survive. Catasetinae generate roots in ANTICIPATION of rain, not in response to it. So that is why they have a very different cycle than other orchids, and why the roots are so vulnerable until they are well-developed. They have to grow big first, BEFORE they experience moisture.