Black pearl catasetum - root rot survival - now what?

[estación seca]

A very important point is to learn about different orchids before doing things to them.

This kind of orchid comes from places with summers often hotter and more humid than where you are, and many grow in full sun. Others grow on palm trunks under the canopies so they get some shade. I have seen relatives of this growing in Mexico on trunks of palms that were growing out of cracks in a huge rock shield where the palms were the only vegetation taller than grass. The air temperature in summer would have been well over 120 F / 49C due to the reflected heat from the rock surface. If one of these in leaf doesn't have a well-developed root system to take in huge amounts of water before the high heat hits the plant will die.

They don't do very well in 70 degree homes for the summer, partly because of the low temperatures and partly because it's hard to give them enough light through a window.

Also this kind of orchid is more intolerant of root disturbance at the wrong time of year than is almost any other kid of orchid. So do read about individual kinds of orchids before making any major changes.

Yours lacks roots but the leaves are not fully expanded. There is a chance the old pseudobulbs have enough water to keep the new growing shoot alive until it forms adequate roots. I strongly concur with the other advice here: Pot it into the medium of your choice, but don't water at all. Put it outside in the shade in the heat and humidity, and hope it begins rooting. Don't water until the roots are 3" long. The old pseudobulbs will definitely shrivel and frighten you. One or all of them might turn yellow and die before the roots are long enough to water. Don't worry about this. If you get a healthy set of roots on the new growth the plant will live.

[isurus79]

I think getting them under the pecan tree would be great! As Roberta mentioned, I'm also in Texas and my YouTube channel is dedicated to growing plants outside for much of the year. Catasetinae LOVE our summer heat!!

You know, I'd actually go another direction that what ES and Roberta recommend with regards to water. I'd put all those cuttings on their side in the shade (above the ground, ideally on a small wire shelf or something similar) and hit them with water every day, I prefer watering in the evening. I suspect the heat and water should trigger some new growth, likely quickly.

If the cutting with the new growth starts growing new roots, pot it up, secure it tightly in the pot, and water sparingly (maybe 2x per week) for a month. Then water as normal. You'll need to find a balance between no water (which could trigger dormancy) and too much water (which would abort the new roots).

When the back bulb divisions sprout, pot one up and water as normal. Pot the other up and keep dry until the new roots are long. I'm not entirely confident in either method this time of year, so hedging your bets will likely generate at least one good plant from your two back divisions.

Ideally, at least one division makes it through autumn. Potentially you get three plants!

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by isurus79

I think getting them under the pecan tree would be great! As Roberta mentioned, I'm also in Texas and my YouTube channel is dedicated to growing plants outside for much of the year. Catasetinae LOVE our summer heat!!

You know, I'd actually go another direction that what ES and Roberta recommend with regards to water. I'd put all those cuttings on their side in the shade (above the ground, ideally on a small wire shelf or something similar) and hit them with water every day, I prefer watering in the evening. I suspect the heat and water should trigger some new growth, likely quickly.

If the cutting with the new growth starts growing new roots, pot it up, secure it tightly in the pot, and water sparingly (maybe 2x per week) for a month. Then water as normal. You'll need to find a balance between no water (which could trigger dormancy) and too much water (which would abort the new roots).

When the back bulb divisions sprout, pot one up and water as normal. Pot the other up and keep dry until the new roots are long. I'm not entirely confident in either method this time of year, so hedging your bets will likely generate at least one good plant from your two back divisions.

Ideally, at least one division makes it through autumn. Potentially you get three plants!

Makes total sense.

[bunnylotus]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Just a note, isurus79 is also in Texas (Austin) so his advice is based on knowing a lot about your conditions.

I'll let him jump in on the specific advice... but I would expect that you should not water, since there are no roots to speak of. (If you water, you will rot whatever is left) Your hope is for the plant to grow some new ones - that again need to get to that 3-4 inch length before you give them water. Those big pseudobulbs are the reserves that the plant will depend upon to generate the strength to survive. Catasetinae generate roots in ANTICIPATION of rain, not in response to it. So that is why they have a very different cycle than other orchids, and why the roots are so vulnerable until they are well-developed. They have to grow big first, BEFORE they experience moisture.

Ok.

---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

Originally Posted by isurus79

I think getting them under the pecan tree would be great! As Roberta mentioned, I'm also in Texas and my YouTube channel is dedicated to growing plants outside for much of the year. Catasetinae LOVE our summer heat!!

You know, I'd actually go another direction that what ES and Roberta recommend with regards to water. I'd put all those cuttings on their side in the shade (above the ground, ideally on a small wire shelf or something similar) and hit them with water every day, I prefer watering in the evening. I suspect the heat and water should trigger some new growth, likely quickly.

If the cutting with the new growth starts growing new roots, pot it up, secure it tightly in the pot, and water sparingly (maybe 2x per week) for a month. Then water as normal. You'll need to find a balance between no water (which could trigger dormancy) and too much water (which would abort the new roots).

When the back bulb divisions sprout, pot one up and water as normal. Pot the other up and keep dry until the new roots are long. I'm not entirely confident in either method this time of year, so hedging your bets will likely generate at least one good plant from your two back divisions.

Ideally, at least one division makes it through autumn. Potentially you get three plants!

Thanks for this! This is helpful! If only I enjoyed the summer heat like these orchids 😂.

I actually found a spot on our back door steps that is shaded, versus the pecan tree. I don’t trust our pugs…could pee on it!

When you say put them on their side do you mean literally lay them on their side? Or could I keep them bare in a pot without any medium?

I will give this a go and roll the dice.

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------

Originally Posted by estación seca

A very important point is to learn about different orchids before doing things to them.

This kind of orchid comes from places with summers often hotter and more humid than where you are, and many grow in full sun. Others grow on palm trunks under the canopies so they get some shade. I have seen relatives of this growing in Mexico on trunks of palms that were growing out of cracks in a huge rock shield where the palms were the only vegetation taller than grass. The air temperature in summer would have been well over 120 F / 49C due to the reflected heat from the rock surface. If one of these in leaf doesn't have a well-developed root system to take in huge amounts of water before the high heat hits the plant will die.

They don't do very well in 70 degree homes for the summer, partly because of the low temperatures and partly because it's hard to give them enough light through a window.

Also this kind of orchid is more intolerant of root disturbance at the wrong time of year than is almost any other kid of orchid. So do read about individual kinds of orchids before making any major changes.

Yours lacks roots but the leaves are not fully expanded. There is a chance the old pseudobulbs have enough water to keep the new growing shoot alive until it forms adequate roots. I strongly concur with the other advice here: Pot it into the medium of your choice, but don't water at all. Put it outside in the shade in the heat and humidity, and hope it begins rooting. Don't water until the roots are 3" long. The old pseudobulbs will definitely shrivel and frighten you. One or all of them might turn yellow and die before the roots are long enough to water. Don't worry about this. If you get a healthy set of roots on the new growth the plant will live.

yes I was aware that it was a high heat orchid. I actually have a book on them from my mom. You and Roberta both mentioned the root length and such - to be clear YES I am aware and already knew that!! Frankly I’m just a nervous person and am worried I’m going to ruin something since I already made a rash decision when I was stressed. And since I almost killed an orchid last time I left outside, well, I hope you can understand my trepidation!!

Better put, It’s not so much that I don’t know about the orchid it’s more of a “oh god what if I mess this up too” 😂.

Y’all must be orchid collectors of steel because I do not understand how y’all don’t make mistakes or get stressed about these things. No matter how much I’ve read knowing me I’m still bound to make a rash choice. Exhibit A. Or, with one of my Cattleya I left outside once exhibit B. Or my tetrapsis exhibit C LOL. Or even my pothos plant! No amount of knowledge is going to stop me in my tracks if I get stressed 😂. At the same time I have rescued and saved many orchids from friends and family propagated a few others. Must be a bad month for me. Summer comes and I make a poor choice…maybe it’s this TX heat.

Luckily my husband said if all else fails he’ll get me a new orchid. He goes “now that we are married you need a new one anyways to commemorate a new chapter of orchid anxiety”. 😂 Bless his heart!

[Roberta]

I have made lots and lots of mistakes. I try not to take them personally, learning from the fatalities is vital. I'll typically try something twice, try to understand the first failure. (Sometimes it's just a less than healthy plant and the next one works, more often it's getting the culture wrong) If I THINK that I know what went wrong the second time and it's something that I really like, I may try a third time but after that, I give up. (I have sworn off killing any more Den. cuthbertsonii... my summers are just too warm and that's not something I can fix. My friends in San Francisco grow them well <sigh>)

Not getting stressed is vital. Look for the reason. And how you might address it. If you can catch something that is causing decline before it's fatal, of course that's best. But try not to do things that are irreparable ... cutting should be a last resort not the first thing you do. Fact, no orchid is going to do very well with no roots (the only way they can absorb water) A bad root is better than no root. Amputations need to be done surgically - taking as little tissue a possible. (You can always take more, you can't put back what you cut) You would not want to go to a surgeon who wields a meat ax!

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by bunnylotus

When you say put them on their side do you mean literally lay them on their side? Or could I keep them bare in a pot without any medium?


!

Either way would work, upright in a pot or just on their side!

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by bunnylotus

Alas my long reply didn’t go through I got logged out for typing too long lol.

I know what you mean! I had that issue once. And I had to develop a habit in order to address that sort of thing ----- by - just from automatic habit now - using my 'select all' text feature just prior to hitting the 'submit reply' button. Or - on a desktop MS Windows computer - the CTRL-A and CTRL-C to copy all typed text to computer memory. Just in case.

As for the mass of roots. For the winter time - allow the roots to dry up - or - at least not to become 'soggy'. In the tropics, and some other places, growers of this sort of plant know that some roots actually stay alive during the 'dormancy' period.

In the wild, there is nobody to cut the roots off. So under 'suitable' conditions, the plants won't get wiped out with roots still on the plant.

The main thing is - in cold climate areas - or very cold climate ----- avoid wet plus cold (- avoid relatively cold and wet).