Is the watering new growth on Catasetum rule an urban legend?

[fishmom]

Oh, sorry. I use a bark mix with Orchiata, some perlite, charcoal, and egg shell mixed in. Very unscientific.

[hypostatic]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Hybrid vigor in plants is real and readily observed across many many genera. This is why many people cut their teeth on complex hybrids and do well, only to branch out into species and have spectacular failures.

I certainly don't have as much experience with catasetums, but I think this statement cannot be over stated. Orchid species are adapted to such niche environments, that it's not surprising when one dies in the hands of someone who has grown them all their life. Like, it's fine to experiment however you want, but it's not unusual to have an experiment that ends in failure!

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

Anyone grow these in semi-hydro?

Speaking of experimentation, I've been considering trying to grow a ctsm almost purely hydroponically. I'm thinking it would be possible to have the old p-bulb suspended inches above water, so that once the plant is big enough, it can tap into a much bigger water/food supply. Like, I'm watering some of my bigger ctsms almost DAILY. Wouldn't a straight hydro approach be more efficient, given how dang thirsty these can be?

Thoughts?

[fishmom]

When you say straight hydro, do you mean with a circulating water supply? Semi/hydro allows for a constant water source, but with the requirement of frequent flushing and water renewal. Still, I think it is easier to set up and maintain than an actual hydroponic system, given that I have only a few plants grown that way.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by hypostatic

Like, it's fine to experiment however you want, but it's not unusual to have an experiment that ends in failure!

Definitely understandable! Although - it's the testing and combining of the results (from everybody) that are going to help make things clear - or more clearcut.

We know that there are at least some growers that have found for Fdk (at least) ---- hybrids --- that the 'law' (which was probably never a law in the first place, but just somehow became a 'law') ------- is NOT law.

I'm very confident now that for my Fdk, and Mormodia and Clowesetum ----- hybrids --- in that they're not going to die or get stunted etc due to their roots being wet - under my growing conditions here.

Even this morning, I took a look at the roots of an Fdk that came out of real dormancy - and the new roots are just growing out all over the place - despite the new roots and media getting wet every morning.

I haven't yet started to test species. But I will eventually get around to doing that - eventually.

What KG is saying here - I assume is ------ will watering the roots of catasetum (hybrids and species) type orchids coming out of real dormancy NECESSARILY stunt/kill new roots/plant for ANY condition? - regardless - fullstop.

And the thing here is ----- if there do happen to be cases and reports from growers where there is no issue (for hybrid and/or species) ------ then the focus would simply then be to do some more research to find out what conditions results in the root-killing/stunting etc, and what conditions do not kill/stunt - and which plants are more prone etc. Going down this path would also naturally mean that what was thought as 'law' is not LAW as such.

This is in no way creating conflict with those that previously lead others to think that watering new roots of any catasetum type orchid coming out of dormancy would kill the roots etc under any condition. It's all about getting things straight and clear.

[hypostatic]

I guess I mean in a container with no substrate, like the attached picture.

[fishmom]

Got it. I think that is what some people are calling "full water culture" these days. I've never tried it.

[SouthPark]

For the permanent root water bath method (aka 'full water culture') ------- considerations definitely need to be made about how to secure/mount/hold the orchid in place ----- while it is growing and developing.

And possibly - every once in a while (maybe) - it might be necessary to refresh the water - in case the oxygen gets too low --- or if it starts to develop some undesirable smells - due to maybe bacterial activity etc.

But then there's always methods to handle that kind of thing - like pumps, automation, filtering etc.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Keysguy

Secondly- your last comment about the 2nd picture. That picture doesn't even show the primary current new growth, it shows the 2 new growths coming off the backbulbs. The primary new growth is off picture to the left which you can see in the first picture and that growth is already fatter and longer than last years. At least compared to last years growth on this particular division.

Indeed! I'm talking about the 2 new growths. I find that when the leaves unfurl at that small size of growth, the final bulb size is significantly smaller. This happens sometimes to me and I'm also not sure why!

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

I still need to get a few of these Catasetum and give it a shot. Would have already done so, other than still saving my pennies for the ephemeral greenhouse.

Anyone grow these in semi-hydro? Mine would have to be. Or I could be a lab rat and join the speculation?

I grew several Catasetinae in s/h when I first moved to Texas (2010). They became enormous! I ended up selling most of those plants to someone on OB and wish I could remember who!

[Keysguy]

then the focus would simply then be to do some more research to find out what conditions results in the root-killing/stunting etc, and what conditions do not kill/stunt -

SP---- my "gut" tells me it's a temperature issue. If I water my plants in Key West when they start developing in early April, it's 80 degrees with a min of 70. No problem.

If someone else lives in say Michigan and can't have a very tight temp control and they have nighttime temps dip into 50's several nights in a row after they've started watering, I bet they have issues. UNLESS- the new growth is old enough to have been sufficiently "hardened" to the climate. Hence , the longer the roots, the more likely the plant is hardened.

I'm probably blowing smoke..........but I'm happy to let you tee up that experiment.


isurus---- OK, gottcha. If my main growth started 3 months ago at the beginning of growing season and the growing season is 6 months long, and if my new ones just started and can grow for only the back half of the season then it stands to reason they'll probably never attain the same maturity as the original growth I guess. Good new is I'm going to find out, aren't I?



BTW everybody---- the other oddity was that the 2 latest growths came out of the way back bulbs.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Keysguy

SP---- my "gut" tells me it's a temperature issue. If I water my plants in Key West when they start developing in early April, it's 80 degrees with a min of 70. No problem.

KG ----- I trust your gut feeling about that.