Shriveled Backbulbs

[Roberta]

If they are in dormancy, there is no good reason to water at all, and some good reasons not to. The question was with regard to the shriveling of old bulbs as the new growth was just getting started. Some of the Catasetinae have enough reserves that they can come completely out of dormancy with no shriveling at all. But some of the weaker ones may start to shrivel when the end of dormancy is approaching, and one or two gentle doses of water is usually quite sufficient to plump them back up while they're getting the root length for watering to really start. Ideal is to just be patient... a few of them may need a little bit of last-minute nurtering.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Roberta

If they are in dormancy, there is no good reason to water at all, and some good reasons not to.

I agree Roberta, in general. Absolutely.

I have my own one good reason, but it's not to go against those good sensible reasons we know of. If the bulb has no leaves etc during dormancy, and if the temperature is really cold etc ------ pretty much not only no point to water, but probably important to avoid watering - to avoid issues with the health of the plant.

My reason is to test what happens if I do keep some moisture in the pot in my tropical conditions --- even if slightly cool, but nowhere near as cool as down in the southern parts of Australia ----- to see if there are any adverse effects. So far, I see no bad effects. This won't mean at all that I'm going to continue doing all this ----- as it is only for testing. But my interest isn't in what happens during dormancy.

My focus is mainly on what isurus79 is claiming - that newly emerging roots of catasetum-related plants coming out of dormancy will stall and die. And even if I become 99.999999999% sure that they won't stall and die under my tropical conditions, this also doesn't mean that I'll recommend to anybody to do any regular light watering of media and/or roots of these plants coming out of dormancy. However, the observations seen - combined with results from other growers that haven't encountered issues with roots stalling/dying ----- definitely say something about isurus79's statement ------ which is not repeatable ---- and is not law. There's no consistency to it.

I don't mind if he says it can happen under particular conditions for particular reasons. But he shouldn't be saying it just happens ------ with a full stop. And he also shouldn't say it is a common occurrence, unless it is somehow possible to come up with a proper survey from enough growers.

But ----- definitely -- when watering catasetum coming out of dormancy --- need to take into consideration ---- no leaves, so not much or any transpiration going on .... so very little to no water uptake. And also consideration of state of the media and the state of the roots. That is - are the roots all dead because a grower kept everything very dry ---- and if so, then what happens if water is added to the media if roots are dead. Or, if roots are alive, then what happens if water is added. And how much water is added. And which regions of the media is the water added. Plus consideration of temperature etc.

So, the best bet is what you recommended - only provide some water - such as around the rim - or just relatively small amounts - if there are signs that the bulbs or plant needs a little. So that's a great call Roberta.

[Xanadu410]

Thank you everyone for your input. I think I'm going to go with a light misting. RH in my grow area is sitting between 70-80% currently. Have lots of veggies starting in the same area and they have moist media constantly. This helps keep that RH up

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[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Xanadu410

Thank you everyone for your input. I think I'm going to go with a light misting. RH in my grow area is sitting between 70-80% currently. Have lots of veggies starting in the same area and they have moist media constantly. This helps keep that RH up

Probably a good idea! Just try to keep the new roots dry.

[Dorchid]

I have extremely limited experience and understanding of this group of plants but was thinking; Couldn’t any water to the supporting back bulbs potentially slow or even stall root growth on new growth as the supporting bulbs would be supplying the hydration that those new roots are looking for?

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Dorchid

I have extremely limited experience and understanding of this group of plants but was thinking; Couldn’t any water to the supporting back bulbs potentially slow or even stall root growth on new growth as the supporting bulbs would be supplying the hydration that those new roots are looking for?

No, the roots really only recoil when touching wet media. Back bulb stores only impact new root growth if the juice runs out before watering commences. Plump back bulbs would not inhibit new root growth and the most intense new flushes of roots I've seen happen when back bulbs are large.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Dorchid

I have extremely limited experience and understanding of this group of plants but was thinking; Couldn’t any water to the supporting back bulbs potentially slow or even stall root growth on new growth as the supporting bulbs would be supplying the hydration that those new roots are looking for?

dorchid ----- even Fred Clarke recommends that -- if a bulb begins to shrivel up, then the recommended method is to add a little bit of water. As for a little bit ...... I recommend just enough to moisten the media, very lightly. That's so that any still viable roots can draw some water into the bulb.

That's for a case when the orchid is actually dormant - no new growth on any bulb.

Your particular question has been (or partially been) answered within some threads. Under certain growing conditions - with say temperature (for example only) above 20C and having media lightly damp/moist only, various growers have had no issues with that undesirable state you mentioned (ie. stalling root growth etc).

So the options will be to follow the pretty good procedural advice of Fred Clarke, or try out (test) other approaches - out of interest. But definitely - the procedural advice provided by Fred Clarke is good - in terms of getting a catasetum-related orchid through (and out of) dormancy.

I'm referring to the procedural advice that Fred Clarke had shared with societies such as AOS and many other ones around United States and around the world ...... not the recently seen images of a bottle of water underneath a pot. But that too can be tried if one wants to try it ------ but definitely report (if possible) any issues if encountered.

[Dorchid]

[Diane56Victor]

In the last 2 weeks Ive ventured into Catasetum with the purchase of a couple of After Dark 'Black Pearl' young plants.

They arrived with nice and green with instruction to water. As they were very dry and in a tiny pots I did water sparingly as I knew they would be heading into dormancy soon.
The temperature in South Australia is a lot cooler than Qld ( where the plants were purchased) but in the last week temps have dropped drastically along with heavy rain. I have not watered, or allowed the plants to get wet since the initial water and have also brought them inside.
My once nice green plants now have leaves that are starting to go yellow.
Given the above situation are the plants just heading into dormancy or did I do the wrong thing and water?

[mook1178]

Australis? You should be going dormant. No more water water until spring