Should I water or not?

[SouthPark]

Mook is right. I'm not dismissing advice. It is absolutely fine to go with a particular recommendation or method - as long as the orchid keeps growing great - year after year --- decades, then that's great.

Steve - I know we're talking about the jar method. I don't recommend that method - ie. plugging a pot of wet spaghnum/moist spaghnum into another pot filled with water, cutting off air-flow through the drainage holes of the main pot. I believe this is what can promote fungus/bacteria/rot activity. It's based on what we know already.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by mook1178

South Park even gave valid reason, which is generally accepted advice for growing orchids.

Again, a more experienced grower wouldn’t have given this type of advice because it’s not correct for this group. His assessment is incorrect. I don’t want people reading this to think Catasetums need tons of airflow around their roots because they read it on OB.

Originally Posted by SouthPark

Steve - I know we're talking about the jar method too. I reckon it's not a good technique - ie. plugging a pot of wet spaghnum/moist spaghnum into another pot filled with water, cutting off air-flow through the drainage holes of the main pot. I believe this is what can promote fungus/bacteria/rot activity. It's based on what we know already.

You’re belief is incorrect. This is a perfectly acceptable technique. Hence the recommendation from the most prolific Catasetum grower on the planet. Jamming permanently wet sphagnum into a plastic bottle is also the basis for the PET technique, which is incredibly successful way to grow this group, but not other groups of orchids. Understanding the basic habits of these guys in nature is important to giving good advice. The bottle method described by Fred will not promote fungus/bacteria/rot.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by isurus79

You’re belief is incorrect.

The PET method involves putting at least some holes in the exterior pot, right?

Originally Posted by isurus79

The bottle method described by Fred will not promote fungus/bacteria/rot.

I'm saying that it can (and will). But that's ok, since I'm just recommending based on well-known sensible knowledge. The other thing is ------ it's certainly testable.

I had already learned and understood the disadvantage of blocking air pathways too much - combined with moist/wet conditions. So I don't have to test this for myself.

The important thing is ----- if you use a technique, and it works - then great. If something doesn't go well after some time while using that technique, then getting back to the solid basics and foundations can help a lot. This may help to reveal an issue or issues - such as --- did any of the recommended good-growing conditions become lacking or compromised? Usually - it is at least one of recommended growing conditions that got compromised.

Originally Posted by isurus79

This is 100% inaccurate and does not come from a place of knowledge.

That exact jar method set-up seen in the photos of Click Here can easily be tested. I'm totally expecting that we will encounter issues if the orchid pot is left in that state for long enough. I don't think it should be 'tested' though - because that would fall under the category of catasetum abuse --- as in - the expected result won't be good at all.

Originally Posted by isurus79

Again, a more experienced grower wouldn’t have given this type of advice because it’s not correct for this group. His assessment is incorrect. I don’t want people reading this to think Catasetums need tons of airflow around their roots because they read it on OB.

Avoid conjuring details. I didn't write tons of airflow needed. However .... since we have seen photos of catasetum on top of power poles - a ton of airflow could be excellent.

Adequate air flow/aerated water movement ... and adequate aeration to media and roots is my recommendation.

I also find this group of orchids to be very easy to grow in the tropics. My catasetums are growing excellently. They just grow in regular very-good-drainage pots and regular media (inner core of firmly packed spaghnum surrounded by a lining of scoria around base and sides of the spaghnum core; and I grow two catasetum plants in 100% scoria), getting watered each morning, getting nice temperatures and light and air-movement (to leaves, stem, media, and around roots). I don't even touch the pots. I just water the media (occasional fertliser or cal-mag solution) with a garden sprayer nozzle (on wide spray setting) and I avoid soggy/saturated media ----- I concentrate the water spray onto the outer scoria (rim) region that surrounds the spaghnum core. The water still gets to the spaghnum core. I still spray some water into the spaghnum core region though. But for the 100% scoria pots, I can dump as much water as I like in any or all regions of the pot - massively convenient, with excellent growth.

I know that other growers will certainly be able to grow catasetum just as easily and excellently - just by applying the usual orchid-growing recommendations. Just got to watch the mites or provide preventative sprays..... and have assorted usual fungal/bacterial treatments - just in case.

Although... for very cold climate countries... I can understand that more care for catasetums is likely needed.

Originally Posted by isurus79

No one ever said your orchids are dying. Only that you’re offering (bad) advice because you lack a basic understanding of this plant’s biology.

You are right about no-one said my orchids are dying. I was merely conveying to you that my experience is adequate for helping beginner growers avoid a lot of issues, so that their orchids will be in good hands (their own good hands). And I also know very respectfully that the accumulated experience transfers very well into catasetum growing. The regular orchid growing experience of mine is a long time one .... although not necessarily expansive .... but is enough to genuinely assist growers if they need it.

I totally disagree with you about your comment about me offering (bad) advice due to lack of understanding of this plant's biology.

Catasetum roots are still vulnerable to rot (just like other orchids), vulnerable to water stagnation and oxygen starvation when O2 levels become low enough. Also will be exposed to issues if the pot is enclosed too much. Maybe no issue for some time - but then one might wonder why issues are encountered at some later stage. The reason - failure to apply basic golden-rules of orchid growing.

Also - Fred is a great person. His work with catasetum breeding is outstanding - with maybe one of the highlights of his fantastic effort being, as you know - the Fdk. After Dark 'SVO Black Pearl' and related (eg. 'SVO Black Diamond' etc). It is because of SVO Black Pearl that I chose to get into catasetum growing. It was also Fred that gave me good comments about a particular nursery where I purchased a lot of my catasetum from. Disagreeing with 1 or 2 points does not mean I'm against him or dismissing his recommendations.

[mook1178]

So realistically and a little less brash way of putting it's is

While your thoughts on not having stagnant air around the roots is generally good advice, for this group it's ok. They grow in areas that create these conditions in the wild.

Then that way a novice or beginner in this group could take away what they need from it.

Instead, while this thread had some good advice, it is buried in the back and forth between the 2 of you.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by SouthPark

The PET method involves putting at least some holes in the exterior pot, right?

Some do it that way. Most just have two drainage holes near the bottom of the pot.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Some do it that way. Most just have two drainage holes near the bottom of the pot.

I see. At least some is better than none at all.

I would put more drainage holes - more holes, and have them large enough.

You keep mentioning experience, and my lack of it with this 'group'. Let me ask you a quick question Steve.

What made you believe that watering roots will stunt or stall roots of catasetum plants coming out of true dormancy - when clearly people like myself and others are finding that water has no such negative impact on these plants when they are provided with regular recommended 'golden-rules' conditions for healthy orchid
growing?

Also - I will say here that applying the golden-rules of orchid growing works nicely with catasetum - as expected. This is why my catasetum plants are doing very well ------ is because I do what I can to eliminate any possible issues such as not enough aeration for roots and media. Good growing temperatures are maintained. Adequate lighting level and duration is provided. Adequate supplements (fertiliser, cal-mag) is provided, as well as adequate water, and adequate aeration of media and roots. And also adequate mite-control methods are applied. This is expected when orchids are provided with the required conditions.

[Clawhammer]

This thread is so 2020, everything becomes a polemic.

The same thing can often be accomplished multiple ways.

Its great people are experimenting and thinking about things in new ways and then sharing the knowledge they gain through forums like these. However, I think the suggestion that Fred Clarke's advice could lead to rot was bound to cause controversy. Fred is a legend. He has a genera named after him. Every time I order from SVO he throws in a free mature orchid. Like a whole extra plant. Steven makes the best catasetinae videos out there and his advice has made me a better grower.

Its important to be respectful of the people whose contributions, often their life's work, built the knowledge the we so freely access today through the internet and this forum.

We should bring no hubris to this place, we are discussing beautiful plants after all.

[SouthPark]

Totally agree - Fred is a legend. He did lots of hard yards work, and provided some real gems of orchids from his work. Incredible passion and love of orchids growing and breeding.

[Diane56Victor]

"Fred that gave me good comments about a particular nursery where I purchased a lot of my catasetum from"

SouthPark
Could I ask the name of the nursery where you purchased your catasetum?
Thank you
Diane

[mook1178]

Interesting thought on the pot method suggested by Fred and this discussion.

Fred does not grow his orchids this way. I copied the email word for word, a little copy pasta as the kids like to say. Anyway, he suggests it in that he has seen it work for some people. I don't think this is his main advice on growing technique, just one for some situations.

Now let's take into consideration the location where these people do this, Canada. Now I'm going to guess, I another haven't googled if I'm right or wrong, Canada at it's high latitudes and very low temps in the winter is going to be on the extreme side of a dry climate. Add in forced heat, I'd be willing to bet 10% humidity indoors isn't unheard of, again all speculation on my part. If that's the case though, I can see where this jar method would be very helpful in keeping pbulbs plump in the winter in Canada. Take this method to Florida to over winter the plants, I'd put money on rot that could kill a plant So again, I think this technique, as with a majority of growing technique among all orchids, is environmental and grower specific.