Relatively light watering of roots

[mofms1]

I got an FDK at the orchid show I went to a month or so ago and right now it's got 2 blooms (the others never opened) and I don't do anything with it. I was told to give it a teaspoon or so of water a month until the blooms fall off and then leave it be til I start to see growth. I was also told it's terrestrial and gets potted in soil. I bought some cactus soil and thought I would mix that up with bark when it comes time to repot, would that work? Also, you say you are "lightly watering", what does that look like?

[mook1178]

An FDK is not terrestrial. It is an intergeneric of Catasetum, Mormodes, and clowesia. I personally use sphagnum moss for mine. Here is a good link to learn about catasetum types.

Sunset Valley Orchids - Superior Hybrids for Orchid Enthusiasts

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by mofms1

Also, you say you are "lightly watering", what does that look like?

Hello mofms1! Mooks already mentioned it correctly. Fdk orchids aren't terrestrial orchids.

A lot of nursery growers use relatively firm-packed (but not super ultra tight) spaghnum moss. Mook is doing that. I've been doing this too.

My plants mostly have firm-packed spaghnum, and the new roots will dig down into it. The roots have no issue with that. They easily penetrate the spaghnum, like a needle threads through material. No problem. I even have a layer of scoria that goes around the sides of my spaghnum and the bottom of the spaghnum, and I use a very well draining plastic pot.

I now also have two Fdk. growing in 100% scoria - actually appear to be having a great time in it. One of these plants is seen in the previous image - but I've done a cut-out and attached here (below) with a red arrow pointing to it.

The light watering I mentioned is - getting a water spray wand, with an adjustable nozzle, and then just spray the roots a little bit. The surrounding spaghnum will also become damp a little bit - which is very far from saturation. The opening post click here shows photos where the medium surface is slightly darkish - due to the presence of water (after I had lightly sprayed the very new emerging roots). I kept doing this light spraying, every day.

I mentioned that my testing wasn't about any desire to water these orchids too early. It was out of interest to see whether or not the roots really do become stunted or die if I were to keep putting water - lightly - on them. The roots didn't become stunted at all, and the orchids all grew up just the same.

Rbarata said that he's been down this alley before, and I assume he didn't see any issues too. I definitely have a feeling that the issue with early watering - for some cases - is media getting too much water when the plant can't use it - and unwanted activity occurring in the media, that can lead to negative effects (rotting/drowing). At the moment, I think that if the media is airy enough, then nothing bad will happen to roots (new and old).




Above: Fdk. in 100% scoria.

[Orchidking]

hey southpark, I like your experiment but I thought you were in Australia where it was middle of summer?
Here in the Uk Winter has set in now - days are dark and cold and some plants have stopped drinking completely.
So your experiment is great it sounds like your plants are in the stage mine will be at in spring after winter.
I gotta get them through the next 3 months now without the pots stagnating.

Glad you got rid of your leaf infection - and what worked well - I'll have to see if I can find some.

I definitely have a feeling that the issue with early watering - for some cases - is media getting too much water when the plant can't use it - and unwanted activity occurring in the media, that can lead to negative effects (rotting/drowing). At the moment, I think that if the media is airy enough, then nothing bad will happen to roots (new and old).

That sounds like a good theory to me but I do want to point out that the airy media is for me the important bit. Any media I have is protected by sealed plastic pots, the top will get dried out a bit more by lots of ventilation but the bottom will not so ventilation for me is not the key when they are drinking little and will do little to dry out the bottom of the media - airy media that lets lots of air through is.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Orchidking

hey southpark, I like your experiment but I thought you were in Australia where it was middle of summer?

Hi O.K. (OrchidKing) - you are right. I am in Australia. The test began a few months ago, when the catasetum type orchids were leafless for quite a while - real dormancy. Then eventually, they started sprouting the new shoot or shoots as usual.

So I decided to take one for the team, and tested to see if continued light watering each morning (new roots) would do anything bad to them. But Rbarata said he had come down this path with other catasetum plants, and he predicted results would be just fine. That's what I found too - no issues.

The light rot was something unrelated - although ridiculous! Fortunately everything panned out just fine after that light rot incident. The leaves have the banding (war scars) across the middle of them hahaha. It wasn't nice during the time the light rot was happening though!

---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Orchidking

I do want to point out that the airy media is for me the important bit.

Oh yes. Indeed! When I first started growing my first catasetums - the plants came in, and I didn't know how much water I was supposed to put in. So I just assumed I could just make the spaghnum wet. Not saturated - but just wet enough. A few days later (this was when I was still beginning at catasetums) - yellowing of leaves. Not good.

But because I was watching the plants like a hawk - I immediately pulled the plants out of their pots - and checked everything. Too wet. So then I used a bigger pot, and popped big chunk scoria down the bottom of the good drainage plastic pot, and put the spaghnum/root mass on top of the scoria layer, then packed scoria around the sides of the pot too. After that - using an appropriate amount of water - the yellowing leaves recovered fully - relatively quickly actually. Green again within a day and half to 2 days. It was magic. Not actually magic - but a nice pickup in health.

So now, my trick is to water the spaghnum reasonably lightly, and I am able to water the scoria region packed around the sides quite heavily. No problems there.

The packing of scoria around the spaghnum/root mass is probably unnecessary. It could even be over-kill. We know already that if a suitable amount of water is applied to a regular spaghnum/root mass - then everything should be ok already.

The yellowing leaves incident (when I was first beginning growing catasetum) was just due to the usual 'changing of hands' issue. One grower has their technique - successful. But when the orchid goes to another grower, there might not be the exchange or passing on of technique (eg. watering technique etc). But this is often expected.

I'm also currently growing two Fdk plants in 100% scoria. One small plant and one large plant. Using smaller sized scoria pieces (average 5 mm diameter) for the relatively small plant. And big pieces 15 to 20 mm diameter for the big plant. Seeing absolutely no issues with their progress. Doing very well.

Originally Posted by Orchidking

Here in the UK winter has set in now - days are dark and cold and some plants have stopped drinking completely. I gotta get them through the next 3 months now without the pots stagnating. Any media I have is protected by sealed plastic pots, the top will get dried out a bit more by lots of ventilation but the bottom will not so ventilation for me is not the key when they are drinking little and will do little to dry out the bottom of the media - airy media that lets lots of air through is.

Here - a photo of your plants during this time might be beneficial - just to show what they look like right now.

Also - you mentioned media is protected by sealed plastic pots. One natural question here I can think of is - why is the media protected by 'sealed plastic pots'?

I know what you mean when you mention 'drinking little'. This is referring to little uptake of water through the roots. In your case, it will be beneficial to not water the plant at all, and allow the media to become dry or relatively dry. Since it's cold and dark, and if the leaf growth activity has pretty much ceased, then just back right-off on the watering. And if you feel that the media is too damp or too wet for this time, then take the plant out of the pot, and repot in dry or drier media.

[mofms1]

Originally Posted by SouthPark

Hello mofms1! Mooks already mentioned it correctly. Fdk orchids aren't terrestrial orchids.

My plants mostly have firm-packed spaghnum, and the new roots will dig down into it...I even have a layer of scoria that goes around the sides of my spaghnum and the bottom of the spaghnum, and I use a very well draining plastic pot.

I now also have two Fdk. growing in 100% scoria - actually appear to be having a great time in it. One of these plants is seen in the previous image - but I've done a cut-out and attached here (below) with a red arrow pointing to it.

So, when it's time to repot I can fill the pot with sphagnum and as long as the pot drains well, it shouldn't rot the roots? I don't usually use sphagnum in pots, but this FDK is very new to me and i'm willing to try if it's best for the plant.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by mofms1

So, when it's time to repot I can fill the pot with sphagnum and as long as the pot drains well, it shouldn't rot the roots? I don't usually use sphagnum in pots, but this FDK is very new to me and i'm willing to try if it's best for the plant.

Mofms1 ...... yes, absolutely right. Fairly firmly-packed spaghnum can be interesting, and often goes against intuition in that somebody could think it just traps water and just suffocate the plant. And indeed - it could happen - if too much water is added.

But it's known that the firmly packed spaghnum (and maybe even lightly-packed) can wick the water around. The water gets distributed out as it travels along the spaghnum material. As long as a suitable amount of water is added - at the right times - the catasetum plant will not only do just fine, but can do excellently. A lot of people, including well known orchid nursery people grow catasetum in 100% spaghnum.

The main thing is to work out roughly what is an appropriate amount of water to add. And to have a rough idea of what's happening with the water after you spray it onto the spaghnum surface. Such as - how deep does the water reach - for a particular amount of water applied to the surface of the pot.

And also consider that the spaghnum and pot, and surrounding air, and the plant all make up a system. If spaghnum is initially quite dry, then it could take a while to slowly get the whole spaghnum mass in the pot to become damp - especially for deep pots. It's a moving system. Slow moving maybe - but moving all the same. The water, the air and oxygen in the water etc.

Spaghnum that is already slightly damp - all in the pot - will likely remain damp if you keep watering lightly with a suitable watering schedule. That's the idea of sustaining dampness. By watering a little bit periodically (at suitable times) - to keep the media damp.

I'll report back in a few months time on the condition of my two Fdk plants growing in 100% scoria. The rest (most) of them are in spaghnum. I believe that the Fdk will do well in scoria too. Each morning, I'm just spraying lots of water onto the scoria surface, which then works its way down the pot and gets absorbed by the scoria. I don't think I can drown the Fdk when it's in scoria. I think this medium is pretty good stuff.

Take a look at this potting video : Please click here - potting catasetum in spaghnum

The person that's doing the potting in the video is a very very good catasetum grower.

[SouthPark]

Approximately 7 months or so later now. Second round of testing.

Starting with two separate pots of Fdk. After Dark 'Baker's Cheetah' ----- sure, they are hybrids, but that's ok. It's a good general example.

They had been dormant for maybe a couple of months.

Now, ever since there were signs of the new roots coming out from the new growths, I spray water not only on those new roots each morning, but all around the surrounding media too - just like I had done last season - with no losses of any of the catasetum type orchids - Fdk, Mo, Monn, and Clo.

Currently --- temperatures range from 15 C at night. Day time ---- 22 to 24 deg C. Humidity ---- 60% and above.

The growing area has gentle natural air-movement. These orchids get a lot of morning sun all the way to late morning.

The main focus here is - whether or not getting these new roots wet has any negative impact on these new roots of these orchids coming out of actual dormancy.

The thing here is - I purposely wet those roots every morning, and the media surface stays a bit wet too - at least until the media dries out - usually dry by the end of the day. I started wetting those new roots ever since there were first signs of them. What is happening is ------- they keep growing.

The above does not necessarily mean that water on new roots (for particular conditions - eg. temperature, state of media etc) cannot negatively impact catasetum type orchids (hybrids, species, or whatever). But it does mean that there certainly are cases - as is known now - that water does not necessarily impact negatively the new roots of catasetum-type orchids coming out of actual dormancy.

The above certainly does not ask or encourage growers to water their plants like this - especially when they hardly have any leaves for transpiration etc. The focus of the test is to just indicate that wetting new roots won't necessarily kill new roots or stunt the roots etc.

I also notice (along with other growers, which have also noticed) that a lot of old roots actually remain alive - within the media - for cases when you don't allow the media to completely dry right out like a dust bowl.

[SouthPark]

I decided to just keep the images as attachments this time, to not clutter up the thread too much

[SouthPark]

Here is an update on the two Fdks from this post.

The new roots and media were sprayed with water every morning. The new roots just keep growing, and are driving or driven into the media already.