Phuphaman Orchids of Thailand

[dvespertilio]

Has anyone dealt w/ these people before? I ordered two Bulbophyllum smitinandii from them in early October. Because of the flooding, bureaucratic delays, etc., the plants didn't arrive until Saturday, December 17, 2011. When I unpacked them, all the leaves were a sickly yellow and pale green, and several were falling off. I thought perhaps the remaining leaves would be retained, but within days they all fell off. It appears that either extreme temperatures and/or perhaps insecticides may have caused this, but I really don't know. The plants may recover, sending out new growths from the naked pseudolbulbs.

I contacted "Andy" at this nursery, sending him pictures of both plants, and initially he offered either replacement or my money back. I opted for the latter. Then another email came a couple of days ago in which he questioned why I had waited a week to contact him. I explained that I was very busy and that I had hoped the plants would stop shedding leaves, but that they were the way I described them from the opening of the package. He apparently now questions that I should have either a refund or replacements. I was upset and told him to just forget it, that I didn't think he "gave a d--n," and that he had most certainly lost a customer. So now I'm posting this here. They're on eBay as "phuphamanorchids" in Khon Kaen, Thailand. I have not heard back from him and suspect that I won't, or that if I do, that he will find another excuse not to refund my money.

SO BEWARE OF PHUPHAMAN ORCHIDS!

[PhuphamanorchidsLtd]

ok every one i am Andy the monster from thailand but before you judge please read this whole post.

First this is a link to the terms on my website i think they are clear but i might be wrong??
Terms - Phuphaman Orchids Ltd

ok this is gonna be a long post and i am sorry but i think if i just copy and paste the emails then it can not be said that i changed anything. I am happy to forward the whole email to anyone that wants it too.

First contact 1 week after getting the plants:-

Andy: The bulbos arrived a couple of days ago. They're in pretty bad shape. The leaves are all yellowed and have mostly fallen off. Are you sure these are cultivated plants? I suppose they will send out new growths, but these aren't very good plants. See the attached photos. What would you suggest?

comment from Me this is not so bad undertone of me being a jungle raper but other that polite enough.

then i replied :-

hi there please tell me the date you recived these plant and your email address as used with paypal or your full name as addressed i would like to check how long they traveled. the one on the right don't look so bas buy the one on the left is very bad . I am 100% sure that these plants are farmed if they were not i would never get the CITES against what some people think you can not just make a CITES on any old plant the office here has a compleat inventory of what all of the regietered farms have and this is held there every time we sell a single plant and make an export cites the stock on their system goes down too. I would make no sence for me to switch plants as if i used wild plants to send that would mean that i would be left with farmed plants with no cites, what good would that be for me? CITES also have a team that vistes every CITES registered farm in Thailand every 3 months we are a registered farm and they do check and are hard on people with wild plants we are aloud to keep 5 wild plants of any species and no parts of them are aloud to be sold ever they are just for making flask, they let us do this as with out farms like us doing this new plants would never get CITES meaning the hard core orchid collectors that "NEED" that newly descovered orchid would just buy from jungle collectors meaning no one had any controal on this. The other thing i would like to add and this is not me trying to get out of anything is the plants are fine on the date of shipping please check the PHYTO paper that is a health cert every single plant gets checked my experts for any infection or insects anything to do with the health of the plants if the plants are no good ill if you like that paper wouldn't be issued. I am sorry for this problem as soon as you contact me i will take steps to make this right by way of a credit to use on our main site Phuphaman Orchids Ltd a refund or a resend of the plants. I am also sorry for the late reply but we have been away shipping this months shipment and my hard drive on my laptop has died a death so i didn't have any internet connection while i was away
Kind regarda
Andy
Happy x-mas and have a great new year

then i got:-
Hello, Andy. The plants arrived on Saturday, 12/17/2011. They are both now leafless, basically just pseudobulbs. My PayPal email is dvespertilio@yahoo.com. My name is Michael E Davis, at 12667 Julington Pines Lane, Jacksonville, FL 32223-2062, USA. I believe what you have to say about the plants being nursery grown, but it appears that they either were exposed to extreme heat or cold, along with extreme dessication, or maybe this is a reaction to chemicals used to fumigate them. I really don't know. In any case, I would like a refund. Please don't send any replacement plants. I don't want to try that. Thanks
comment again that is ok nothing rude or wrong with that.

then i said:-

Hi there there are a few things i would like to say here the plants are not fumigated they are dipped in the same chemicals as we use in our farm every week. I have been a little busy but now after looking at this i have some more questions like why didn't you report this to us the day it got? this is clear in out terms. You had the plant for a whole week. What exactly did you do with the plant when it got there? What it the temp there at the moment? I really am an honest seller just check my feedback you can see this but a whole week after delivery anything could have happened. as i said all our plants are inspected the just before shipping.
Thanks andy

then i was told:-

The plants arrived looking that way and shedding leaves. I am very busy. I thought maybe they would retain some leaves and eventually start growing again. They will probably eventually start growing. They're with my other bulbos. Temps range from 15-25 degrees C and they are kept uniformly moist, a little drier when temps fall lower at this time of year. If you don't want to refund, fine. I won't buy anything from you again, you've lost a customer, and that's that. I doubt that you really give a damn! Good-bye

comment i think that is a little un called for???? or did i deserve the "I doubt that you really give a damn! "

Ok well for the rest of this day and the next i was very busy as i am extending my farm to hold a 1/2 million plant delivery i have comming soon as you can guess this is no small job. I live 130km from the nearest cite (Khon Kaen) where i also had to go to get my lap top fixed so i can run my business when i am doing the paper work or if i am away for any other reason.
Today i opened my inbox to this:-

Andy: See this link:

Phuphaman Orchids of Thailand

I have posted this on the OrchidBoard, one of the largest orchid internet fora in the world. Incidentally, I have been growing orchids of all kinds for nearly 50 years. So I know just a little bit about what I'm doing.

so i said this :-

Hi there i think you are kinda funny to be honest. I asked a few questions and you have thrown a wabbly about it all i asked was what the temp is and i questioned the why you didn't follow the terms on the site or the listings :-) lol is there really any need for all this did I at any time say that i would not refund you . I think not but your responce with "Yu don't give a damn" etc etc" well put my back up to say the least, a threat of losing a client all this cuz i asked why you didn't follow the directions your post is fine i will also post it is up to you what you think but my lady to me you will allways be funny and rather sad you are not my boss you are not the police and you are not my king
you have no right to talk to me in the maner you have or to do this
have a nice day andy

comment anyone else getting boared yet????

she said this:-

Andy: Put up or shut up! Give me the refund or don't, the choice is yours! Have a nice night!

comment is that any way to talk to some one????
any way this went on and on for a nother email or 2.

Let me tell you all this.

Fact:- I do not know any website that will act outside their terms that is what they are there for.
Fact:- It takes less than 1 min to take a pic who in the whole world can't take the time to do that.
Fact:- this has happend to me before and i have made the refund i send the first few emails to make people think about it is if there is another problem they will follow the terms. The thing is if i leave the time open i will have people killing plants and asking for their money back
how am i to know this isn't what happened in this case? for all i know she left in in the cold all week
or in direct sun how can i know. I do know the plants were inspect by plant health here
i can post a scanned copy of the phyto and the ems bill so you can all see it is the same day. Ok well that is me finished for now.

Please brand me as you will my mind is clear from guilt

[s1214215]

Ok, well having lived in Thailand and exported to friends in the USA, I am quite familiar with the process and the inefficiency of the US postal/Customs network. Thai post normally runs faster than the US side and from what I understand this nursery sends from Bangkok, which means plants leave Thailand the day they are sent or the next at the latest.

To be honest a buyer has to read the conditions of sale where ever they are. You cant blame a seller if they dont refund when its outside of the contract.

Also, you can not hold a seller responsible for what happens within shipping. The shipper can not govern what a postal agent does. That said, Thai post send their shipments via passenger aircraft and cabins are kept warm. I cant say what USPS does all the way, but I do know they use aircond shipping in most parts of the journey as that is what USPS has told me.

A agree with the seller here, that you should contact immediately if there is a problem and not wait a week. From what I can see, the seller was willing to make a compensation until things went sour.

To be honest, one has to appreciate the distance these plants travel to get to you. If they loose leaves, I never let that concern me as many orchids resent being in a box for more than a week. I have seen many bulbo species drop leaves just after a few says in transit from Malaysia to me in Thailand when I was there. They soon put up new growth though

Brett

[Siaogu]

Andy invited me to check out this post and I felt the need to register a new account and comment on my experience with Andy.

Andy is an honest seller and I am his long time customer for more than a year. I have received numerous package from him with one order worth more than a thousand dollars.

Sometimes I did received plants that looked a tat dried but I guess it's just that plants does not do well when they are shipped wet as they get mould and disease pretty quickly.

I guess if there are any grievances, things can be settled amicably. From my personal experience with him, he does not seem like an unreasonable person to deal with.

Cheerios
Vincent

[dvespertilio]

Thank you Vincent and others. I just sent a detailed posting response to all of the above, and unfortunately I didn't copy it and the site failed to post it. In short, I apologised to Andy, as I did in personal email to him. I explained that it is most likely a miscommunication between us due to language and cultural diffences. Years ago, I explained, I earned a degree in Philosophy/Religious Studies, I have the utmost respect for Theravadin Buddhism as practiced in Thailand, particularly the Forest Tradition, though I know nothing of Thai culture personally. My wife, incidentally is Korean and comes out of a Korean Buddhist perspective. I lived in Korea for 3 years and know something of language/cultural misperceptions. Thanks, Vincent, particularly for your posting. I visited the National Botanic Garden in Singapore in 1983- gorgeous.

I apolgise to Andy for the misunderstanding, I have received a refund, and I am now a satisfied customer. The matter is closed

[Siaogu]

I hope things will turn up fine for the both of you. Orchid keeping does not only allow us to be closer to nature but also closer to people around the world through common interest

Anyways, things has changed quite a bit at the National Botanic Gardens and maybe you can visit it again.

Cheers
Vincent

[Bud]

Wow! All is well that ends well...
I have ordered from that orchid place last spring and it took 2 weeks to arrive to me, and I am in NYC...the main post office in 33rd street is opened even on Sundays!
The CITES and phyto certificates were in order: but the US customs likes to play with everyones emotions and delay as much as possible especially if it is labeled "live plant" pls. expedite....something in the lavel makes the US customs suspicious and want to give at least one week delay in delivery and they dont even open it or inspect it: they just want to delay
I got my plants(2 bareroot large mature previously bloomed vandas and one huge Phal specimen) they are tenacious and refuse to be killed...its all bloomed for me and posted here in OB

[PhuphamanorchidsLtd]

Hi there Bud thanks for the add. thing is i just don't think this has all ended well seems this is already number 1 on google for searching for my company, and the way it reads it seems i am hard to deal with but if people just stick to terms then everything is fine. But the thing is, i will never knock this off the top stop there are just to many users i bet this time in 1 or 2 months if you search this town Phuphaman this will be top of that too It will be there for ever. for me it is the worst thing that could have happened to my business, and for what???? People need to understand that when you do something like this you are messing with someones lively hood as them i too have a family to look after, this is not some game. Anyway Bud thanks for your comment and for the other guys vince and brett. You know i really don't know what is wrong with the post there in the UAS but i do know if the express shipping is picked the box will be on the door in 3-5 days in most cases or for larger orders air freight there is a agent there called omega that will even clear this through customs for you to set the system up is a little expensive but after that it seems to be ok for the next lot, that is a same day delivery. what i don't get is it is clearly possable to get there in 3-4 days so why the airmail is so slow? the live plants on the label i think is nothing to do with it as i have send pots and many things like this and it is nearly always 2 weeks :-(

[Shiffdaddy]

Meh, i'm still planning on ordering from you in the future and this thread wont stop me. Shit happens. Maybe this whole thread could just get deleted and it would be lost forever?! Idk. Good luck

Ben

[Siaogu]

Originally Posted by Shiffdaddy

Meh, i'm still planning on ordering from you in the future and this thread wont stop me. Shit happens. Maybe this whole thread could just get deleted and it would be lost forever?! Idk. Good luck

Ben

See Andy, a couple of complaints would not hurt your image too much, there are far too many compliments to offset it.

Keep up the good quality and service.

Cheers
Vincent