Someone help me with this phal? Black roots and floppy leaves

[2ysub2ysur]

I repotted this guy back in September and it definitely seems worse off now, even though it wasn't in great shape then. Hoping someone can diagnose it by looking at the photo.

At first I thought I wasn't watering enough (generally once a week, but I used the larger bark so it doesn't hold much moisture in), but watering a couple times per week didn't change anything.

Thanks in advance!

[cluelessmidwesterner]

Ok. Let me start by tell you I'm as green as you are with growing orchids so wait to do anything until the more experienced folks chime in on this. Until then:

Don't panic. There are some aerial roots on your Phal so there is still hope. Read through the post here on the board called Help for a sick phal - only has aerial roots left (again don't do anything until someone responds to **your** post simple because you cannot stick things back on if you cut them off before someone tells you what to do).

IF I were to guess you most likely over-watered your Phal and I venture a guess that you may have over-potted it. The one thing I keep hearing over and over in their advice is pot your orchid according to the size of the healthy roots it has not for the top (leaves) of the plant. If you over pot the middle of the bark doesn't get a chance to dry out properly before you water again and the roots suffocate then die. Phals roots need a drink then dry out. Think of it as a a sort of big air plant (Tillandsia).

They might will tell you not to pot it up for a day or so any roots that "might" be salvageable have a chance to dry out before placing in back in media. It's ok since Phals are basically an air plant so not being in media isn't going to make it die (lack of air to the roots will do that quicker than drying out a few days).

Someone will chime in soon with more experience than I have so be patient.

[Orchid Whisperer]

The above advice is pretty good (need to change you user name to just 'midwesterner'!)

Since you have live aerial roots, you can probably trim off the black parts of the roots. Before repotting, you may be able to perk up the plant with a short daily soak of the roots. Hang the bare roots in a jar or glass, soak just the roots (half hour a day maybe), drain and leave dry until the next day. Repeat daily for a week or two.

After that, re-pot as instructed above. Afterward, I would wait a day or two before watering resumes.

[2ysub2ysur]

Wonderful, thanks for the help you two! Yeah, I think I probably overpotted it. I thought it would be good to give it room to breathe....whoops.

Originally Posted by Orchid Whisperer

Since you have live aerial roots, you can probably trim off the black parts of the roots. Before repotting, you may be able to perk up the plant with a short daily soak of the roots. Hang the bare roots in a jar or glass, soak just the roots (half hour a day maybe), drain and leave dry until the next day. Repeat daily for a week or two.

What's the longest I could do the roots in a jar thing? I'm going to be out of town for a while and while I can have my boyfriend keep up the soaking routine, I'd rather be around to repot it myself.

[aliceinwl]

You could probably do the soaking routine for a few weeks or until you can repot it. I'd feel the black roots if any have firm sections, don't cut them. It might also help to leave some of the dead roots intact to help anchor the plant after you re-pot.

You can also make your life easier if you pot the Phal up in a clear pot with a root up against the side. When the root is silver: water, when the root is green: don't water. After watering you also want to make sure to drain off all the water. If you had it potted in the pot with the built in saucer I think I see, make sure to drain all the excess water out of the saucer after watering.

[WaterWitchin]

I have some phals I unmounted (were growing on a piece of wood). It really tore them up when I unmounted as they'd been growing that way for a long time. Plus wasn't super careful, if truth be known.

I did the jar and soak routine for a week or two, then continued on doing same and soaking only when the roots started to turn silver (maybe every five to seven days). Left water in the jar lower than the roots were so it stayed at higher humidity. They've been growing like that for four months now, and two are putting out a spike. So you can do that for quite some time.

I'm pretty sure of the pot in the picture. I have several. A very small base, and holes in side of pot? If so, it's more likely overwatering than too small of a pot. And those pots with holes in the sides are highly overrated, for my worth.

I agree with AliceIW that when growing in bark, and especially when learning to grow, it's so much easier to use a clear pot where you can see the roots and judge when it's time to water. If you like the pot, just use a clear one, then stick it inside the decorative one.

And yes... lose that "clueless" midwesterner. We're all at one state or another of cluelessness here.

Edited for picture: Okay, totally different potting, different orchid. But is this the pot? If so, it's not overly large for that phal. But do the clear pot.

[2ysub2ysur]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

But is this the pot? If so, it's not overly large for that phal. But do the clear pot.

I think that's the one! If not, it's very similar.

I definitely like the idea of a clear pot better so I can see what's going on, so I'll do that for sure.

Last night, I trimmed off all the dead roots and it's currently doing its soak. Fingers crossed!

Another question: what do ya'll think went wrong with this guy? I'll post a pic of what it looked like in September, before the repot...and I thought it looked bad then! My watering routine was the same and it was always properly drained. I always water with bottled water, not tap. Could it be the potting medium? It's got a lot of large pieces of bark and I'm wondering if that could be an issue.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by 2ysub2ysur

What's the longest I could do the roots in a jar thing? I'm going to be out of town for a while and while I can have my boyfriend keep up the soaking routine, I'd rather be around to repot it myself.

I've successfully done it with a couple Phalaenopsis plants for a year and a half. That was kind of an experiment. Long enough to create a full and dense root system that stood on it's own outside of the jar. As the root mass grew larger, I reduced the frequency of soaks, daily was not needed.

After that, I potted the plant. One of them is developing a spike now.

[cluelessmidwesterner]

Originally Posted by 2ysub2ysur

I think that's the one! If not, it's very similar.

I definitely like the idea of a clear pot better so I can see what's going on, so I'll do that for sure.

Last night, I trimmed off all the dead roots and it's currently doing its soak. Fingers crossed!

Another question: what do ya'll think went wrong with this guy? I'll post a pic of what it looked like in September, before the repot...and I thought it looked bad then! My watering routine was the same and it was always properly drained. I always water with bottled water, not tap. Could it be the potting medium? It's got a lot of large pieces of bark and I'm wondering if that could be an issue.

Again bare in mind I am a noobie like you, I don't think it was the bark media especially if it was medium-sized to large bark. The bark size dictates the amount of air space their is available between one piece of bark and another. The finer the bark, the less air spaces there is. Particularly as time passes and the media settles and degrades.

One of the things that is hard for someone like me as a new orchid owner has a hard time wrapping my head around is that everyone's home environment is different. The amount of humidity in your house, size of the pot, the amount of sunlight, the seasonal growth rate, how much air movement there (if you have a ceiling fan running,if your central heating is radiant heat versus forced air, or in the summer air conditioning) and temperature all effects how often you have to water. So a standard answer of water every x number of days, doesn't work for all of those factors that come into play in your unique home environment.

The best analogy I could come up with is when years ago I asked MDH's then 70 something Nanna for her bread recipe and she looked me in the eye and said "Good God, who measures?" She gave me ball park measurements of the ingredients. Eventually I figured out a close approximation of what was in her bread recipe but she was correct because no two cooks make the same exact recipe taste the same or have the exact same texture /consistency.

[Cheddarbob14]

Another option would be full water culture, the method in which I now grow all 4 of my phals, and 5 or 6 oncidiums. About 3 years ago, my mother in law gave me this phal that had zero "traditional" roots, and about 5 air roots. It quickly turned into my 1st FWC experiment, as I didnt have much to lose. I carefully encouraged all of the air roots into a Mason jar, and filled up with enough water to completely cover the bottom 20%ish of the roots. Once a week I fill the jar to the top for about a half an hour, then completely drain, and refill to submerge the same 20%. Once a month I add a tblspn each (per gallon)of kelpmax and Inocucor during the full root soak. I've since converted 3 more to the same growing culture,it's simple and for whatever reason, mine seem to love it. This pic is of the 1st 1 I put in FWC, just dropped blooms on old spike maybe a couple months ago, new spike is coming in fast.

2nd pic is all of them together, 2 of which are showing different signs of life on the most recent stems