Second batch of new orchid frenzy buy--more advice for a noob?

[estación seca]

You can read my lecture notes from Win Winmaw, who talked about the Shan Plateau in Burma, where Dendrobium lindleyi grows. Use the top menu Search function and search on DVOS and Winmaw.

It grows on evergreen and deciduous trees at higher elevations not far from the equator in a very seasonal monsoon climate. In the summer it's very wet, humid and shady. In the winter the trees drop their leaves and the plants get substantially more sun, for a much longer period of light than most of us can provide in the US. In winter it gets down to nearly freezing at night. Also it doesn't rain there in the winter, but the dew is so heavy the ground is slippery wet every single night. The Den plants are soaking wet all winter.

I suspect trouble flowering it is due to keeping it too warm in winter, and not giving it enough winter light. People look up the climate, see there is no winter rain, and assume the plant is dry all winter. But they don't find the information about the dew.

You could hang the Dendrobium lindleyi outside on a sunny tree so long as it's above freezing. The risk is you would forget it on a night with frost. Next best would be to put it in a sunny window in a room you don't heat, that gets very cool to cold at night, but not freezing. Water it regularly.

Dendrobium cucumerinum comes from an exceptionally hot and dry desert with a long, dry winter. Succulent hobbyists were introduced to it a few years back, and tried to grow it like this. The plants all died quickly. This is a great example of paying attention to microclimates. If you scour the Internet you will find reports of where this grows. It is on the undersides of oak branches hanging over seasonal streams. During the hottest part of the year, summer, it experiences shade, high humidity and is wet much of the time - but fully exposed on the oak bark. After the rain stops in fall, the streams dry up eventually, so for a month or two in midwinter they may not flow. But the plant is still in the shade, and it is not as hot as during the summer - but it is not cold.

Easier-to-grow relatives in this group of Dendrobium, sometimes segregated into the genus Dockrillia, are D. linguiforme, D. toressae and D. wasselii. You can look up my lecture notes from Alan Koch speaking to the Desert Valley Orchid Society on Dockrillias.

Vanda pumila / old name Ascocentrum pumilum needs a huge amount of water, lots of air at the roots, high humidity and high temperatures to be happy. The other (former Ascocentrum, now sunk into Vanda) species also need these but are a little less demanding. The others also prefer a lot more light than miniatum wants. I suspect your plant isn't warm enough to tolerate the root damage from falling out of the basket, and at lower temperatures the medium didn't dry out as fast as it should have. The Vandas with blue flowers tolerate cooler temperatures better. If you don't want a big blue hybrid, look for V. coerulea (bigger plant), V. coerulescens and V. lilacina (small plants.) V. coerulea grows close to Den. lindleyi but at lower elevation, with less winter dew.

[Zindaginha]

Originally Posted by estación seca

You can read my lecture notes from Win Winmaw, who talked about the Shan Plateau in Burma, where Dendrobium lindleyi grows. Use the top menu Search function and search on DVOS and Winmaw.

It grows on evergreen and deciduous trees at higher elevations not far from the equator in a very seasonal monsoon climate. In the summer it's very wet, humid and shady. In the winter the trees drop their leaves and the plants get substantially more sun, for a much longer period of light than most of us can provide in the US. In winter it gets down to nearly freezing at night. Also it doesn't rain there in the winter, but the dew is so heavy the ground is slippery wet every single night. The Den plants are soaking wet all winter.

I suspect trouble flowering it is due to keeping it too warm in winter, and not giving it enough winter light. People look up the climate, see there is no winter rain, and assume the plant is dry all winter. But they don't find the information about the dew.

You could hang the Dendrobium lindleyi outside on a sunny tree so long as it's above freezing. The risk is you would forget it on a night with frost. Next best would be to put it in a sunny window in a room you don't heat, that gets very cool to cold at night, but not freezing. Water it regularly.

Dendrobium cucumerinum comes from an exceptionally hot and dry desert with a long, dry winter. Succulent hobbyists were introduced to it a few years back, and tried to grow it like this. The plants all died quickly. This is a great example of paying attention to microclimates. If you scour the Internet you will find reports of where this grows. It is on the undersides of oak branches hanging over seasonal streams. During the hottest part of the year, summer, it experiences shade, high humidity and is wet much of the time - but fully exposed on the oak bark. After the rain stops in fall, the streams dry up eventually, so for a month or two in midwinter they may not flow. But the plant is still in the shade, and it is not as hot as during the summer - but it is not cold.

Easier-to-grow relatives in this group of Dendrobium, sometimes segregated into the genus Dockrillia, are D. linguiforme, D. toressae and D. wasselii. You can look up my lecture notes from Alan Koch speaking to the Desert Valley Orchid Society on Dockrillias.

Vanda pumila / old name Ascocentrum pumilum needs a huge amount of water, lots of air at the roots, high humidity and high temperatures to be happy. The other (former Ascocentrum, now sunk into Vanda) species also need these but are a little less demanding. The others also prefer a lot more light than miniatum wants. I suspect your plant isn't warm enough to tolerate the root damage from falling out of the basket, and at lower temperatures the medium didn't dry out as fast as it should have. The Vandas with blue flowers tolerate cooler temperatures better. If you don't want a big blue hybrid, look for V. coerulea (bigger plant), V. coerulescens and V. lilacina (small plants.) V. coerulea grows close to Den. lindleyi but at lower elevation, with less winter dew.

THANK YOU for this info! Just what I wanted! If you don't mind, can I give you afew more details on these plants and my care and ask for your input?

D. lindleyi: the grower did provide some good advice that seems to mirror what your description of the natural conditions suggest (and contrasts with things I've read elsewhere on-line). I currently have the plants hanging below a large skylight where they get 9 hours of natural daylight. I could have had them under a light for 13, but thought the sky light's better light quality might be better than a longer photo period. Daytime temps are from 62-72 degrees. After sunset, I put the plants in our unheated garage by a window, where temps are around 15 degrees cooler. Every morning at sunrise I soak the plants in RO for about 2 minutes. The skylight humidity is 40-45%. I have new leaves coming with this treatment for one month, but no noticeable root growth. Is the plant actually dormant? I also have another grow light area that gets 13 hours + a small amount of daylight and is not in a greenhouse. Should I move the D. lindleyi there?

D. cucumerinums: I decided to keep these by the grow light. Right now they are in a small transparent grow tent with some natural sunlight from an eastern window and about 2500 FC from 6500k T5s. The grow tent humidity is currently around 85%. I still water them by soaking for 1-2 minutes every other day. Day temps are 72 degrees, night temps are 61-65 degrees. With this treatment, new leaves that the plants had when they arrived have slowly gotten bigger, but no other changes that I can see and roots seem not to be growing, but are green. Does this sound like happy D. cucumerinum to you?

Ascocenda: Same conditions as the D. cucumerinums but daily soaking and for longer and now the plant is closer to the lights, about 3000 FC, I think. Previously, this plant got less light, was in a jar wtih water for better humidity and its roots were in rocks, so yes, I think it was cold, damp and starved of light so the roots died from the point where they were injured. In spite of this, it did start putting out two new leaves. Now the roots seem healthy and green and leaves look ok. I can send you a picture. I felt like this plant was now happy and had intended to make no changes, but now from what you say I think it may not be so happy. It should be fine in terms of humidity and light, but maybe temperature is still too cold? Also, should I try to repot it or is it ok to be just resting on rocks?

Some changes I have contemplated for D. cucumerinum and ascocenda:

1. I can treat the D. cucumerinum like the d. lindleyi.
2. I can treat the dendros like my sophronitis, which is hanging by an eastern window close to a grow light that runs for 13 hours, but it is not in a greenhouse, so 45% RH instead of 85%.
3. I could set the ascocenda on top of a seedling heat mat (sit the little pot with rocks on a dish on the mat) in the green house.
4. I could move the asconceda to my living room which gets unobstructed southern sun (but it is winter at 43 degrees north by the Pacific, so lots of clouds every day and the sun stays low on the horizon). The living room is warmer, but also just 45% RH.
5. I could make no changes. The D. cucumerinum have changed very little in appearance under my care and the Eria Pannea seems to be growing happily. But it is very true that the other species have suffered some trauma since entering my home. However, they now seem stable and all are exhibiting growth of some sort. But maybe I am being overly optimistic.

Any thoughts?

Again, I really appreciate your detailed response. Knowing something of the microclimates really helps a lot. I will check out your lecture notes right now, in fact.

---------- Post added at 12:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

Originally Posted by estación seca

You can read my lecture notes from Win Winmaw, who talked about the Shan Plateau in Burma, where Dendrobium lindleyi grows. Use the top menu Search function and search on DVOS and Winmaw.

It grows on evergreen and deciduous trees at higher elevations not far from the equator in a very seasonal monsoon climate. In the summer it's very wet, humid and shady. In the winter the trees drop their leaves and the plants get substantially more sun, for a much longer period of light than most of us can provide in the US. In winter it gets down to nearly freezing at night. Also it doesn't rain there in the winter, but the dew is so heavy the ground is slippery wet every single night. The Den plants are soaking wet all winter.

I suspect trouble flowering it is due to keeping it too warm in winter, and not giving it enough winter light. People look up the climate, see there is no winter rain, and assume the plant is dry all winter. But they don't find the information about the dew.

You could hang the Dendrobium lindleyi outside on a sunny tree so long as it's above freezing. The risk is you would forget it on a night with frost. Next best would be to put it in a sunny window in a room you don't heat, that gets very cool to cold at night, but not freezing. Water it regularly.

Dendrobium cucumerinum comes from an exceptionally hot and dry desert with a long, dry winter. Succulent hobbyists were introduced to it a few years back, and tried to grow it like this. The plants all died quickly. This is a great example of paying attention to microclimates. If you scour the Internet you will find reports of where this grows. It is on the undersides of oak branches hanging over seasonal streams. During the hottest part of the year, summer, it experiences shade, high humidity and is wet much of the time - but fully exposed on the oak bark. After the rain stops in fall, the streams dry up eventually, so for a month or two in midwinter they may not flow. But the plant is still in the shade, and it is not as hot as during the summer - but it is not cold.

Easier-to-grow relatives in this group of Dendrobium, sometimes segregated into the genus Dockrillia, are D. linguiforme, D. toressae and D. wasselii. You can look up my lecture notes from Alan Koch speaking to the Desert Valley Orchid Society on Dockrillias.

Vanda pumila / old name Ascocentrum pumilum needs a huge amount of water, lots of air at the roots, high humidity and high temperatures to be happy. The other (former Ascocentrum, now sunk into Vanda) species also need these but are a little less demanding. The others also prefer a lot more light than miniatum wants. I suspect your plant isn't warm enough to tolerate the root damage from falling out of the basket, and at lower temperatures the medium didn't dry out as fast as it should have. The Vandas with blue flowers tolerate cooler temperatures better. If you don't want a big blue hybrid, look for V. coerulea (bigger plant), V. coerulescens and V. lilacina (small plants.) V. coerulea grows close to Den. lindleyi but at lower elevation, with less winter dew.

Back for more:

I just read that discussion where you mention Winmaw. Well, I noticed two things: this person's plant was blooking in December (I was thinking maybe February or March for some reason) AND the photos of her plant's psuedobulbs show them to be quite a bit more shriveled than mine. I will say that the plant had somewhat deflated-looking pbulbs when I got it, which then plumped up after I soaked the thing for 30 minutes to revive it from being shipped. This prompted me to worry that I had woken it from dormancy or something so I asked the grower about it and she said it was a good sign, not a bad one, but now I wonder... I have vowed to skip a day of watering, but when I bring the plants up from the garage each morning, they just seem bone dry and they are tiny things mounted on tiny pieces of wood, so I freak out and water them. They ARE getting 40 degree or close to that night-time temps. I don't know...should I switch to watering every other day? If they were cacti or euphorbia, I'd risk it but I worry about those fragile roots drying up into nothing!