Dark spots on leaves of plant beginning dormancy normal?

[TomThumb]

So I just received a shipment of the new 'chids this morning and one of them is my first deciduous type. It's going into dormancy or at least I think it is since it's leaves are yellowing but the bulb looks incredibly healthy! It's really cute actually and I didn't think I'd like it as much as I do. (Initially I didn't like the look of pseudobulbs. Don't jump on me ...I think they're cute now. Acquired taste? )

Anyway the leaves on this new monierara has a few dark spots that I'm not sure are normal. Can anyone let me know if I would worry?

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

It usually isn't a large amount of dark spots that presents itself when the leaves are about to go deciduous. It is usually just yellowing of the leaf. However, a small amount of spotting is not unusual either. There may also be a small degree of leaf tip dieback in some cases, but not always.

Worry if the bulbs are rotting out at this point. If not, then you're ok.

[Ray]

Right.

Those spots are likely small fungal infections caused by water droplets sitting on the leaves as it cools in the evening. No a big deal at all for a plant that's likely to lose the leaves anyway.

[TomThumb]

Thanks but now I have another problem,

I know I could have waited until spring to reply but I saw roots sticking out the bottom so I took it out of its pot and saw a block of roots. I cleaned it off...only took more than an hour...I didn't lose any roots but know what do I do? I have a 5" net pot ready for it but look at these roots! Plus the baby sprouts. The original pot was 3.5".....is it normal for this many roots to be stuffed in there? It was all sphag with a core of a foam like substance and some of the sphag was completely broken down and just strings of...core? It looked like really strong wirey dried roots?

Anyway how do I pot this. The roots seem to be green where exposed to light so I think this is epiphytic.

[TomThumb]

Yeah. I just tried stuffing him into the 5.5" net pot i had ready for his arrival and...well he just doesn't fit. I heard the crunch and snap of velamen when i tried to push him into the pot and i took him right back out. I don't have a larger pot. I have an 8" vanda basket but i'm not sure how well he will do bare rooted.

For now I'm keeping him in a tray covered with damp, not sopping sphag. I was told to treat him like a cattelya and the bulbs make it seem like he's not suited to be bare rooted even though his roots are crazy. Any suggestions would be welcome. I will get net pots in multiple sizes to see which fits him best.

EDIT: I have to point out that the seller said he was in a 4" pot ready to be transferred to a 5"...PFFFFFTTTT. More like a 6-7" pot.

[Roberta]

Repotting now was not a good thing! Roots sticking out the bottom of Catasetinae that have outgrown their pot is just sign of healthy plant. The time to repot these is late winter - just before they break dormancy. At this point, you may hae dealt it a setback, how serious depends on how much growing it still wanted to do before dormancy, that it may not want to continue since its roots were disturbed. In fact, left to their own devices, the old roots will pretty much die (or become less useful) during dormancy - getting the potting done before the new root growth starts in the spring ensures that the new roots will grow well undisturbed, and they are the ones that the plant will mostly depend upon. When repotting these at the correct time, you don't have to remove old roots or media, the plant will pretty much ignore both as it develops those new roots. For culture of Catasetinae in general, this from the Sunset Valley Orchids site is an excellent reference:
Sunset Valley Orchids Catasetinae Culture Fred Clarke, the owner of Sunset Valley Orchids knows more about this group of orchids than almost anybody on the planet. He also is happy to answer questions.

[TomThumb]

Ah thanks for the info. i wasn't sure which culture sheet to follow since the vendor said to just treat it like a cattelya and i found little info when looking up monieraras. I do know that i should have waited to repot him in the spring but he seemed to have no space in the pot and the roots were all folded back on themselves in the pot. He was also soaking wet during shipment so i was also wary of any rot. (I didn't see any) I will take the set back and hopefully have him healthy in the future.

[Roberta]

I think your vendor needs to refine instructions a bit... these Catasetinae really are quite different than Cattleyas. Temperature and light may be similar, but while in active growth Catasetinae want to be quite wet (unlike Catts that need to dry out between waterings) and they have a dormancy period that is really pronounced that needs to be respected. (Don't be in a rush to resume watering... seems cruel to hold back when they are starting to have leaves and roots, but that's what they need) That dormancy period is quite handy, however, when you have to deal with winter and share living space or precious greenhouse space with them... with no leaves they take up very little room, and can be (need to be) totally ignored. When they are in active growth and those leaves get big and spread out, they can go outside (once nights are above about 55 deg F or so)

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

The potential setback is not a big deal. You'll still see flowers sooner or later. Unless there were lots of living roots that were severely damaged, removing dead roots won't do irreparable harm.

While it is true that it is far easier and far safer to remove Catasetinae from their pots during dormancy, it is fine to knock it out of the pot to see if any damage had been done to the root system at pretty much any time during the year provided that the living roots remain largely intact.

If there were lots of living roots damaged, then it will definitely set the plant back in blooming cycle by around 1 - 2 years and could potentially stunt the growth of the still developing pseudobulbs. Worst case scenario is that the plant dies, (it's not likely unless something goes horribly wrong).

For this particular plant, I wouldn't go 6" - 7" for a pot size. 4" - 5" is still just fine for it. Remember that the roots will eventually, (and naturally), die back anyways. There is currently no need to increase the pot size until the plant has put on far more growth than it currently has.

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------

Yeah, I don't agree with your vendor about growing like a Cattleya either. These are vastly different in habit compared to Cattleyas.

It is correct, during active growth, they require a good amount of moisture, (not sopping wet though).

During dormancy, it is a hard dormancy where water is greatly reduced.

If I'm not mistaken, some of these guys can take it down to anywhere around 50 F - 55 F during the winter. I have a Catasetum schmidtianum that I had growing outdoors all year round here in SoCal. The plant tolerated this treatment ok, the flower spike didn't. Once it spikes, the safe low end temperature is closer to 60 F.


Btw, start reducing the water slowly right now. It is approaching dormancy.

[Roberta]

I use 55 deg F as sort of the cutoff point. It can get a lot cooler than that where I live (occasionally as low as the mid 30's F, much of the winter into the 40's F ) I think The King is more inland, where it's a little less temperate. So in another month or so I'll be cramming them into the greenhouse since many will still have leaves, but those will be lost shortly thereafter. Some don't even spike until they have lost leaves. I use sphagnum for the smaller ones (as does Fred Clarke), when they get big enough to need a 5 inch pot I'll switch to small bark because I don't want a soggy, airless lump in the middle of the pot. I also agree with The King, to not be too quick to go to bigger pots - they are quite happy to be pot-bound, and older roots do die so the root mass doesn't get as big as one would think - and smaller pots again avoid the problem of a wet, airless area in the middle. In general, orchids like "tight shoes".