Dove orchid leaves with brown streaks - Page 2 - Orchid Board

estación seca · #11 06-03-2018, 08:20 PM

I have a substantially different take.

This grows to be a VERY BIG PLANT, with leaves reaching four feet / 1.1 meters above the pot. Pseudobulbs can get as large as a softball, or larger. It will have trouble surviving in a too-small container with inadequate room for a big root system. The container you picked is far too small.

The plant you show has living roots, but far fewer of them than it should have. I suspect it was repotted before you got it, at the wrong time, before it was making new growth and new roots.

It is now making new roots and new vegetative shoots. The old roots are still alive and absorbing water, and new roots are forming. If you damage any more roots the plant will struggle.

Do not let this orchid get dry when it is pushing new growth. Its winters are fairly dry, but not the summers. It is pushing new growth now, and the roots are coming from those new growths. If you let it go dry the new growth will die quickly. This is not a plant that should get dry during its growth season, not even for a day.

The leaves might be sunburned from going outside into the sun. They might also be damaged from insufficient watering. They might have spider mite damage. Orchids with very thin leaves, like this one, are highly susceptible to spider mites, especially when the environment is warm and dry. Take a tissue. Put it on the underside of the leaves near the pseudobulbs. Wipe the tissue somewhat firmly up the leaf towards the tip, and look for brownish or reddish streaks. If you see those, you have spider mites. Spray all parts of the plant with rubbing alcohol, and read more about spider mites here in the Pests and Diseases forum.

If you use fir bark, I would suggest repotting this plant, now, into at least a 6" / 15cm pot. Water it when the root zone is no longer moist, but don't let it dry out.

mkampf · #12 06-03-2018, 10:12 PM

What do dead roots look like? Are the soft and mushy ones dead?

estación seca · #13 06-04-2018, 05:49 AM

You can't tell which roots are dead unless they're dark brown or black, and extremely slimy. You can pull the outer layer of velamen off living roots. This is why I don't cut off roots.

King_of_orchid_growing:) · #14 06-04-2018, 10:35 AM

I'm sorry, but my opinion on the matter will be different given the circumstances of what the grower actually did.

Mkampf had already removed the dead roots. They were the dark brown and black ones in which some of them have the velamen layer sloughing off. The remaining roots are very few and not all that extensive. I'd forego putting it into a large pot the way it is now.

The way this plant is currently, mkampf should be putting it into a small pot, then putting it into a larger one after the roots have recovered and they fill in the smaller pot. Which means it should be repotted into a larger pot to accommodate the root mass accordingly next year.

Do not put into a larger pot until later give the roots a chance to grow out. If it is potted up into a significantly larger pot right now, the remaining roots will rot from too much water.

It's pretty clear how large this plant will get, but it is just not ready for a larger pot yet.

They may like a lot of water, but their roots can still rot from too much of it.

That is clearly not spider mite damage. They may be susceptible to it under certain circumstances, but that is not what the photos are showing. I guess it doesn't hurt to do the tissue paper test for spider mites anyways.

SundayGardener · #15 06-04-2018, 11:37 AM

I'm no expert, but I have a Dove orchid currently in new growth. I had mine in lava rock and it was fine. Basically I am just posting to say that once I got this orchid squared away I have ignored the heck out of it (which seems to be recommended for winter) and I still have a pretty laid back attitude towards it and it is unstoppable.

From what I understand, they are notoriously difficult to bloom. Ricardo's blog has information and some pictures to give you an idea of how big and lush it can get Ricardo's Blog, : Peristeria

estación seca · #16 06-05-2018, 02:21 AM

Philip, your advice to use a small pot for this very large growing plant is simply wrong. You don't understand how this plant grows.

I don't like being confrontational in public forums, but... Orchid Board shows up in a lot of searches; plenty of people want to grow this orchid, will search for information about it, and land on this very thread; and, there isn't a lot of information about this plant on the Internet. The blog SundayGardener referenced is a very good source, and searching Ricardo's blog will lead to finding more of Ricardo's posts about just this orchid. Everything in my previous post I still regard as correct.

This plant has acquired a reputation as somewhat difficult to grow. It shouldn't be. I its reputation may be due to several reasons.

People aren't familiar with the plant. They don't understand how large it gets, and how fast. So they treat it as a small orchid, rather than as a very large orchid. The one thing this plant needs, to get big enough to flower, is a huge root system, to support the huge leaves and pseudobulbs. mkampf's plant is trying to grow roots and shoots right now. It needs to be allowed to grow a huge root system right now, and it needs a large pot right now. Putting it into a small pot now will set it back at least a year.

Many people have trouble envisioning the future, and can only see what is in front of them. Gardeners can't be like that. We need to understand how plants are going to grow in the future, and arrange circumstances to fit. We see this all the time in landscapes when an inexperienced beginner puts a small sapling tree in a small container right next to a front door, failing to think of how the tree will grow. Here in Arizona people will plant a tiny little Agave pup right next to the sidewalk, and completely forget the sharply toothed plant, with a sword-like spike on the end of each leaf, gets 6 feet across.

There are a number of orchids with large to enormous pseudobulbs, very large to enormous, and thin, mostly deciduous leaves, and which experience a prolonged winter drought in habitat. Peristeria elata, Anguloa and many of the Catasetinae grow like this. In captivity all these orchids should be repotted just as new root and shoot growth is starting, and not in the middle of the growing season. This kind of orchid develops an extensive roots system on the newest growth to support the newest growth, and anything interfering in that root growth sets the plant back severely.

This group of plants is very susceptible to spider mites. Mites can severely damage or kill one of these in just a few days, so any time there is any kind of leaf trouble, the gardener must check for spider mites.

I think it is highly likely mkampf cut off healthy roots. It isn't usually possible to discriminate between dead and healthy roots without a microscope. Velamen comes off healthy roots. The thread inside the velamen, which is the true root, can continue to take up water. Dry brown roots with easily-separable velamen can be alive. Soft squishy brown roots can be alive. Slimy black roots are generally not alive. But mkampf's plant is just beginning to make new roots, so it can go on to grow happily.

With proper care, Peristeria elata can more than double the size of each new set of pseudobulbs, as compared to the previous set. It can go from grape-sized pseudobulbs to tennis-ball-sized pseudobulbs in one long growing season. It should be in constant growth, one after another, during the warm season. You wouldn't buy an extra-small crate for a skinny Great Dane puppy. Because people don't realize how big Peristeria elata gets, and how fast, people forget the standard advice to up-pot orchids to a pot large enough to hold about 2 years' future growth. The 6" / 15cm pot I recommended is a minimum size. mkampf's plant could easily go into a much larger pot than 6", and a small pot will set it back.

People forget orchids primarily make new roots from new growth. Old roots are much less effective than new roots. Peristeria elata makes new roots as the new growth is developing. The old roots contribute little to the new growth once the new roots are forming. As new shoots grow, they will develop an appropriately large root system - if the pot has enough room. Putting this plant into a tiny pot will dwarf it and prevent it from growing.

Peristeria elata forms huge, thin leaves that suck up a very large amount of water. It is a terrestrial plant, growing among rocks in soil at the edge of the forest. There is leaf litter all around the plants, which helps hold in soil moisture. It experiences a wet summer, and a very dry winter. It needs to be quite wet while growing or leaves may wilt. New growths will die if not watered enough. I wouldn't be able to grow my plant in lava chunks. I would need to water more than once a day. I have mine in a fine bark/perlite mixture. It sits on the floor of my sunroom in a place where the concrete is usually wet, and the Peristeria pot wicks up water constantly. I will repot it next year into a mixture of pumice and commercial potting soil.

People stress it needs to be quite large before flowering, and it needs to have a completely dry winter to flower. If watered through the winter, and temperatures are warm enough, it will continue to push new growth after new growth, all year. I have kept mine in continuous growth to try to get it to flowering size faster.