Phal column sticking out of forming buds.

[Manu]

Anyone has an explanation for this...



My Phal lindenii has one of its forming buds with the column sticking out... Seems like the column got to full size before the rest of the flower.... All other buds are fine.



I also had a Phal Shilleriana do the same this winter, but on all its buds.. once fully open they actually looked almost normal...



Half way opened..



I can't find a picture of the Schilleriana fully open from close, but it honestly looked (close to) normal.. I had another Shilleriana from the same batch that grows mounted with this one and it was totally fine, all its buds were normal and it bloomed at the same time, so don't think it's growing conditions related, maybe hormonal?

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Genetic deformity.

[Manu]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Genetic deformity.

The lindenii I've been growing for years... Bloomed countless times and I've never seen this!

Could SuperThrive cause this? I think it might of gotten some inadvertently when I was spraying adjacent plants that I had just mounted, the timing would of been right around when the lindenii spike started..

For the Schilleriana, now that I think about it, I had just mounted it, and was adding SuperThrive for sure, it had also just started growing a spike..

Seems like the common denominator, or just a coincidence.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I don't know if Superthrive causes genetic mutations. There is no evidence for such a claim.

Your orchids don't need Superthrive to thrive. They can do just fine without it. Any claims that Superthrive is beneficial, is currently anecdotal.

I do know that Phals are cloned like no other orchid on the market, and the cloning process may have created issues with genetic mutations.

[Manu]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

I don't know if Superthrive causes genetic mutations. There is no evidence for such a claim. Your orchids don't need Superthrive to thrive. They can do just fine without it. Any claims that Superthrive is beneficial, is currently anecdotal.

I do know that Phals are cloned like no other orchid on the market, and the cloning process may have created issues with genetic mutations.

Theres plenty of research and information regarding kelp and other hormones and their ability to generate root growth....

I don't use it regularly, but do use it after I mount or repot and have seen the benefits.. I understand that's not necessary to thrive, but a little KLN, superthrive, kelpmax etc. Definitely helps getting root growth started!

These plants are seed grown, if that makes a difference.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by Manu

Theres plenty of research and information regarding kelp and other hormones and their ability to generate root growth....

As far as I know, Superthrive is not a kelp product. If it is, the manufacturer has never disclosed kelp as being an ingredient for Superthrive. I don't really know all of the ingredients in Superthrive, and therefore, I don't have much to say about it. I can't say a lot of factual things about something for which I don't have the full information on.

I'm aware of the studies on kelp in correlation to inducing root growth in plants that you're talking about, by the way.

Again, to my knowledge, Superthrive is not a kelp product, and if so, the mention of the kelp studies on inducing root growth is not correlated with the use of Superthrive and inducing root growth. If anybody can verify that Superthrive is in fact a kelp product and provide the evidence for it, then the correlation can be made.

From reading the label, I do know that it contains vitamin B1 at 0.09% and 1-Naphthylacetic acid (aka NAA) at 0.048%.

Both ingredients do have the ability to induce root growth. However, I'm not certain if the concentrations are enough to encourage root growth in orchids.

NAA is a plant growth regulator/phytohormone.

Regarding your question as to whether or not the use of Superthrive is the cause of the genetic mutation in your Phal, like I said before, I don't really know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a factor.

Originally Posted by Manu

I don't use it regularly, but do use it after I mount or repot and have seen the benefits.. I understand that's not necessary to thrive, but a little KLN, superthrive, kelpmax etc. Definitely helps getting root growth started!

I've tried it and I haven't seen much benefit to using it. I feel I can get the same results from not having to use Superthrive.

If you feel it benefits you, I'm not going to dissuade you from using it. I'm just stating my opinion on the matter based on what I've observed. There's a reason why I say that any benefits derived from the use of Superthrive is currently anecdotal in regards to orchids. I was also implying that should you discontinue the use of Superthrive, the plant would be fine, which would in turn save you money in the long run.

Originally Posted by Manu

These plants are seed grown, if that makes a difference.

Doesn't really change the diagnosis. It's still a genetic mutation.

Genetic mutations can still occur in seed grown populations in plants, it is not unheard of.

To be honest, I don't even know if this gene mutation will continue to express itself or not on subsequent blooming cycles.

[Manu]

Based on the bottle, SuperThrive now includes Kelp (doesn't say how much). I normally used KLN but that isn't available in Canada anymore! I only administer these products after a mount or repot... And still get amazing root growth on plants that don't receive it year after year, so for sure it's not a necessity, I fully agree with you on that!!

I already know these plants have bloomed normally previously. Shouldn't a genetic mutation be permanent? Symptoms could show intermittently, but I mean the mutation is always present? If a product is causing it to show, isn't that more of a temporary hormonal thing!?!


Thanks for the feedback!

[Manu]

Added SuperThrive label for your reference

[Ray]

The primary stimulant in Superthrive is NAA, naphthalene acetic acid, a synthetic auxin. I believe they started adding kelp only a year or two ago.

Yes, overapplication of auxins can lead to flower deformities, but it is reversible, so apparently not genetic changes.

[Manu]

Originally Posted by Ray

The primary stimulant in Superthrive is NAA, naphthalene acetic acid, a synthetic auxin. I believe they started adding kelp only a year or two ago.

Yes, overapplication of auxins can lead to flower deformities, but it is reversible, so apparently not genetic changes.

Great, thanks Ray!