Mini phalaenopsis, not the best roots... semi-hydro?

[sweetjblue]

Here's a suggestion.

Using the round container that you mentioned, put either slightly dampened moss, bark that has been soaked for several hours or dampened clay balls in the container to within an inch or so of the base of the plant. This will give your plant the moisture it needs but allow air to circulate around the base. Check every couple of days to see if any water needs to be added to whatever substrate you chose.

But first I would give the plant a good washing off with full strength Dawn and rinse well with a firm but gentle stream of water. I've done this before and it had no ill effects of the plant and bugs disappeared.

After a couple of weeks (3-4) take the plant out and check to see if the "orange balls" are still there. If not plant as you normally would and be careful not to keep it too wet. If the balls are still there I'd repeat with another application of the Dawn.

And not to contradict King, the link I provided you with, that person did use peroxide on their plant with success and no ill effects. They followed up I think a year later and the plant looked great and was blooming.

Dehydration can be a sign of root rot which is what you are experiencing.


Judi

[lilin42]

Originally Posted by sweetjblue

Here's a suggestion.

Using the round container that you mentioned, put either slightly dampened moss, bark that has been soaked for several hours or dampened clay balls in the container to within an inch or so of the base of the plant. This will give your plant the moisture it needs but allow air to circulate around the base. Check every couple of days to see if any water needs to be added to whatever substrate you chose.

But first I would give the plant a good washing off with full strength Dawn and rinse well with a firm but gentle stream of water. I've done this before and it had no ill effects of the plant and bugs disappeared.

After a couple of weeks (3-4) take the plant out and check to see if the "orange balls" are still there. If not plant as you normally would and be careful not to keep it too wet. If the balls are still there I'd repeat with another application of the Dawn.

And not to contradict King, the link I provided you with, that person did use peroxide on their plant with success and no ill effects. They followed up I think a year later and the plant looked great and was blooming.

Dehydration can be a sign of root rot which is what you are experiencing.


Judi

Great, thank you. I have some fresh sphagnum sitting around and I'll give this a shot tomorrow after I wash it. So the sphagnum should only touch the tips of the roots?

[sweetjblue]

How long are the roots? If their a couple of inches long, personally I'd cover them at LEAST half way. As I said "to within an inch or so of the base of the plant"

[lilin42]

Originally Posted by sweetjblue

How long are the roots? If their a couple of inches long, personally I'd cover them at LEAST half way. As I said "to within an inch or so of the base of the plant"

I'll try my best! The longest are probably barely 2 inches, perhaps a bit less. It's an itsy bitsy orchid!

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I'm not sure how you plan on growing this orchid, but you have some options.

1. You may want to try growing this plant in a clear plastic pot that fits the root mass. If you need to fill up space in the pot that is not occupied by the roots, you may try using some styrofoam peanuts. Try using a commonly used potting media that is simple to use first, such as fir bark used for orchids, (medium to large grade).

If you don't want to use fir bark as a potting media, maybe tree fern fiber might be another option. It may offer more water retention to the potting media and may require you to water a bit less frequently throughout the week. It would also allow the roots on your Phal to breathe.

Lava rocks are also another option as a potting media.

Water after roots have dried off for a day, then water again. This is kind of a pretty decent rule of thumb. Once you get used to your plant, you will get to know when to water and when not to.

2. If you plan on watering frequently, maybe another option would be to grow them mounted on a slab of cork bark. If you choose this method, it is best to use a thin layer, (one strand layer), of long strand Sphagnum moss and place the moss beneath the roots.

If you find mounting on cork bark to not offer good enough water retention, you may also try using mounting on tree fern fiber and seeing if that works best for you or your plant.

Maybe start here, and we can continue moving on to strategies to get your plant headed in the right direction.

[lilin42]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

I'm not sure how you plan on growing this orchid, but you have some options.

1. You may want to try growing this plant in a clear plastic pot that fits the root mass. If you need to fill up space in the pot that is not occupied by the roots, you may try using some styrofoam peanuts. Try using a commonly used potting media that is simple to use first, such as fir bark used for orchids, (medium to large grade).

If you don't want to use fir bark as a potting media, maybe tree fern fiber might be another option. It may offer more water retention to the potting media and may require you to water a bit less frequently throughout the week. It would also allow the roots on your Phal to breathe.

Lava rocks are also another option as a potting media.

Water after roots have dried off for a day, then water again. This is kind of a pretty decent rule of thumb. Once you get used to your plant, you will get to know when to water and when not to.

2. If you plan on watering frequently, maybe another option would be to grow them mounted on a slab of cork bark. If you choose this method, it is best to use a thin layer, (one strand layer), of long strand Sphagnum moss and place the moss beneath the roots.

If you find mounting on cork bark to not offer good enough water retention, you may also try using mounting on tree fern fiber and seeing if that works best for you or your plant.

Maybe start here, and we can continue moving on to strategies to get your plant headed in the right direction.

Ok, thank you. I wasn't quite sure what to use for a traditional potting when I first got it, since it's so small and the orchid bark I found in my local store was so big, but I'll take another look online. I think that would be better than mounting, as my humidity isn't the highest.

I'll try sweet's suggestion with some sphagnum until I get that all situated and get it cleaned up/de-fungused as well as I can.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Try using Thioml or Patch Pro Fungicide. You will only need it once or twice. These two products work and they are not that expensive. If you are dealing with Oomycetes and not fungi, you will have to try a different method of control. Preferably creating conditions that favor the orchid and not the oomycete.

The active fungicidal ingredient in Patch Pro Fungicide is a chemical called propaconazole.

The active fungicidal ingredient in Thioml is a chemical called Thiophanate-methyl.

Take your pick as to which chemical fungicide you want to use. Either one works fine. They are both systemic fungicides. Treat the use of fungicides like using antibiotics. Do not use unless needed. Fungus can develop resistance to these chemicals.

By the way, oomycetes are not true fungi. They were once thought to be fungi because of their morphology. Oomycetes are actually a type of algae that are kind of related to marine kelp or diatoms.

Sources for Oomycetes:

American Phytopathophysiology Society:
Introduction to Oomycetes

University of California Museum of Paleontology (UCMP Berkeley):
Introduction to the Oomycota

National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI):
Molecular Genetics of Pathogenic Oomycetes

American Society for Microbiology:
Oomycete Interactions with Plants: Infection Strategies and Resistance Principles

The above mentioned sources cite their sources.

As a side note: It can be difficult to tell the difference between a fungal infection and a oomycete infection without the use of a microscope and proper training.

It can also be difficult for hobbyists like us to tell the difference between different species of fungi or molds from each other without the use of a microscope and proper training.

When we are using some of the terms to describe the disease symptoms we see developing in our plants, think of them as kind of being in the ballpark rather than being spot on, if you know what I mean.

If you want to do some reading on hydrogen peroxide and determine if this is something you want to use the following is an article you can read:

This one is from Colorado State University:
Free Radicals and Reactive Oxygen

This is from some website called Doctors Lounge:
https://www.doctorslounge.com/primar...eradicals3.htm

The above two articles on hydrogen peroxide were the best stand alone articles about hydrogen peroxide that didn't also involve other topics and were the easiest to follow along with.

[lilin42]

Hi Philip, thank you. I already have the 3-in-1 that was suggested earlier on the way, but I'm not opposed to just hanging on to it (I have quite a few plants anyway and I tend to "rescue" discounted plants -- I'm sure I'll use it one way or another!). Would one of these be better for a potential fungal problem? I was thinking that if I do also have mealie bugs, the 3-in-1 would hopefully work on both of those problems.

I also got the tiniest little orchid pot I could find and hopefully it's small enough! 2 inches, which is actually still bigger than the root system. It has lots of slits and ventilation throughout the pot and I am planning to use that with a medium, although I still haven't decided exactly what to use as a medium.

If I were to go with something less moisture retentive, like bark or a lava rock, this would of course discourage any further fungal or similar issues, but I am concerned dehydration would again become a problem. Could I combat this with an outer pot, to help hold in a bit of humidity? I am fairly sure the slotted pot I got would fit inside one of my cups fairly snugly (it has a very wide rim -- here's a link). I'm just afraid I'm going to keep losing leaves!

Today, since none of that is here yet, the plan is just to wash it with a touch of soap and just leave a bit of sphagnum on the longer roots to keep it from getting overly dry -- it's another very hot day here -- but not soak it.

[estación seca]

You have to make sure mealy bugs and scale are completely gone or a plant like this will not survive. No matter what you do the plant will be more susceptible to fungus infections.

Plants this sick will not be rid of insects with alcohol treatments. Soap treatment can do it if you keep at it every few days.

My guess is you still have mealy bugs. Once they are gone a viable Phal in good temperatures will take off growing.

I would not ever use fungicide unless I knew what I was treating, which you don't. If you pick a fungicide to which fungus attacking your plant is not susceptible, you will kill off the beneficial organisms keeping the invasive fungus in check, and very possible make things worse.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

The Bayer 3 in 1 Insect Disease and Mite Control, seems adequate enough to get rid of your pests. Like I said prior, chemical means of pest control should not be the first resort to solving your problems.

The best solution to your problems is to change how you are growing the orchid in such a way that favors the orchid's growth while discouraging the proliferation of pests.

Do keep your chemical(s) on hand just in case, but first grow the orchid in a way that suits the plant and doesn't encourage the disease causing organisms to thrive.