Humidity fluctuation question

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Originally Posted by greenpassion

Well let me chime in here. I now have two cool mist ultrasonic humidifiers going in a very large room and the humidity hovers around 50%. When I got up this morning it was 49%. I have three small fans and there's plenty of air circulation in this room. The temps are always between 67 + 69. So far so good!

Something to consider... if you position the humidifiers close to your orchids, so the humidified air blows towards your plants, they will experience a much higher humidity, and that will also be enough air circulation for them. Air circulation doesn't need to be strong enough that the leaves sway in the wind.

Another problem with window condensation: If it happens continually to a wood-framed window, water running down the glass keeps the wood wet all the time. The wood will most definitely rot and fungus will most definitely grow on the wood. I don't have to worry about that here in Phoenix, but I did have to worry about it in my winter plant growing room in St. Louis. When I was a child living in Milwaukee I marveled at the water frozen on the inside surfaces of the windows.

[greenpassion]

Well I have vinyl replacement windows. All through the house I had them put in years ago. Good move on my part!

[Dollythehun]

We worked for years to tighten up our drafty 1950s home. Now it's pretty tight and we have the problem ES talks about. Should we move, my windows will be clad.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Manu

First, I do not maintain 70% humidity in my entire house, I maintain that amount in my growing area, naturally. A few feet away l, I measure 50 %. The plants transpire and the moist moss increases the humidity in the immediate vicinity of the plants.

This was your exact quote...

Originally Posted by Manu

I maintain 60-70% humidity and there is no condensation on walls or wood structures.. I keep my temps around 23 24 day time. I will get window condensation if curtains are closed at night. As long as you have air circulation and temperatures are not too low, high humidity is a good thing for your health and your plants!

No mention of you maintaining those parameters in only one room of your house.

Originally Posted by Manu

Katrina, it seems you did not take time to do your homework before commenting... Did you research dew point, relative vs absolute humidity. Etc?

Not to worry, Professor...I have a very good understanding of dew point and it's relationship and interactions to RH. 70% humidity at 23/24c (73-75f) puts you somewhere in the range of a 64/65 degree dew point (aprox calculation via a simple rule of thumb). Now, most people would feel that as kind of sticky but, of course, everyone's tolerance to moisture in the air is different. (Personally, I'm most comfortable at a dew point of 50, down to 40 degrees - I have zero tolerance for the sticky.) So, yes, I have a good grasp of dew point and it's effects. FWIW, Orchids are my out of control hobby but I'm also a bit of a weather geek. And with that said, these are basic calculations. Most people do not own a psychrometer...myself included.

Originally Posted by Manu

Second, yes the government's will recommend 40-50% RH for your comfort. Those figures are provided as guidelines don't don't take in consideration other factors. They obviously won't recommend you maintain 70% in your house and neither do I.

Then why are we "discussing" this? I stated that maintaining a consistent 60-70% humidity in the house is unhealthy. All evidence supports this. And yet, we are going round and round over something that you have now said you don't recommend. ??

Originally Posted by Manu

4th, this is not a home building/maintaining forum, we are here to discuss orchids and their growing conditions. Providing 70% would be beneficial for almost all orchids, some even much higher. The key is air circulstion with these level of humidity.

Nice try, Professor...we often go off on tangents that have nothing to do w/orchids on this forum. Here's the thing, when I see advice that I know could be trouble for someone...well, I can't help myself...I will say something. In this case, it was a recommendation that people maintain an unhealthy humidity in their homes. I understand that you have a better grasp on many factors that can/might help to offset some damage in a home but let's be honest here...most people do not take those other things into consideration. People pick up a hygrometer and look at the RH...that's it. Making a broad statement of you keep your house at 75 degrees with 60-70% constant humidity...well, you get where I'm going with this and it could cause serious problems for the next person that does that.

Of course all orchids (or at least most!) are going to be happier in a more humid environment! That is a given. I think we all know it. What I said is that I am not risking damaging my home so the orchids could be a bit happier and I simply relayed well known advice when it comes to the health of their homes and the humans living in those homes.

Originally Posted by Manu

Also, without even performing any research, common sense dictates that you can have yearly 70% RH levels and not be sick or have dammage to buildings. Think of all the tropical climate countries on this planet and level of constant humidity they deal with. Humidity means nothing if you don't take in consideration the other surrondings factors.

True, but we are talking about those of us in Northern climates where our orchids are inside, we are growing in homes that are being heated and we are trying to accommodate the needs of the orchids and still maintain a balance that, I repeat, is healthy for the home and the residents...not just the orchids. We are not talking tropical climates...this conversation would never have started if the OP was growing in a tropical climate and didn't need to worry about bringing the plants indoors.

One of my closest friends is originally from the Philippines, I will have to ask her the details on what they experience there. However, I highly suspect that if people living in a tropical climate can afford a/c...that they are using it. I'm sure there are differences but I am not aware of them so I wouldn't dream of commenting on something of which I know nothing. I do know that even in the warmer zones w/in the US...those recommendations hold as far as the EPA is concerned. I can't speak for other countries. I will have to ask my friend what she knows...her family still lives in the Philippines...it should be very interesting to learn more about it.

Originally Posted by Manu

What you are doing here is like saying that someone that weights 200 pounds is automatically overweight... Sure if you measure 5 feet and weight 200 pounds, you probably have a weight issue. But if you measure 6ft3 and weight 200 pounds you're probably in a heathly weight range. Then there are other factors, suchs as muscle %. I hope this image will help you take a step back and understand you need to take all factors in consideration.

Bottom line, you are spreading misinformation.

You're entitled to your opinion. I have stated my sources and I stand by every word of it. At this point, we are just beating a dead horse so this is the last posting I will make in this thread.

[Manu]

Originally Posted by katrina

You're entitled to your opinion. I have stated my sources and I stand by every word of it. At this point, we are just beating a dead horse so this is the last posting I will make in this thread.

WOW with all the quoting and time you took on this one I sure hope its your last one, you've got too much time on your hands, go buy a few more orchids to keep you busy!

The only thing I'll say about this novel is I didn't feel the need to specify I was not talking about my entire house. I talk about my living room which is where I grow my orchids. This is the orchidboard right? Not HGTV? The OP was talking about conditions around 50% humidity in the first place, there was no need to start being over careful and warning everyone. That said, I provide 60 70% humidity in my growing zone, sometimes higher, that zone is in a room of my house, not a greenhouse, and if you maintain other conditions right, there is absolutely no danger to your home or health. I think this is a lot more important to share with orchid board members that come here for advise on how to grow their plants better. Moreover, trying to raise humidity to 70% in an entire house in winter climates with heating is impossible without the help of 1 or 2 humidifiers per room and would uncomfortable, no one would do this. I really did not feel the need to start warning people about something no one would possibly do!!! And regarding other tropical climates, if one would want to grow orchids, he could very well keep one room not conditioned to grow and maintain other proper conditions to prevent any other issues. Don't try to prove a point that your right and I'm wrong, it's useless for the good of the post and other readers and you are perhaps misleading/scaring people to thinking their growing conditions might be killing them or damaging their houses.

[camille1585]

Apparently this is a topic that people feel very passionate about, but let's keep the discussion civil. If you can't agree, then just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

As a funny note on this topic, I looked up the humidity guidelines for several EU countries (UK 50-50%, Belgium 40-70%, France 45-65%, Netherlands 40-60%; all are based on what's best for both health and buildings) and in France they felt that it was necessary to add a guideline (70-90%) for wine cellars!

[greenpassion]

Well said Camille!

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Originally Posted by camille1585

As a funny note on this topic, I looked up the humidity guidelines for several EU countries (UK 50-50%, Belgium 40-70%, France 45-65%, Netherlands 40-60%; all are based on what's best for both health and buildings) and in France they felt that it was necessary to add a guideline (70-90%) for wine cellars!

High relative humidity keeps corks and barrels from drying and shrinking, which might admit oxygen to spoil the wine.

[rbarata]

In the meanwhile my Onc twinkle is blooming from 3 spikes. Later on I'll post some pics.

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I can wear my contact lenses when relative humidity is over 70%, so I'm even more handsome. Of course then I can't see to read Orchid Board.