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  #11  
Old 02-08-2022, 10:33 PM
MN Tomato MN Tomato is offline
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I don't know so much from orchids, but I have taught Latin!

alba/albus/album is a Latin adjective meaning "white" (>"albino", "albumin" or egg white)

caerulea or coerulea = "sky colored" (caelum is the sky) so blue or similar color

striata = Latin "striped"
flammea = "like a flame"

I didn't know "orlata" except it has something to do with edges, but I found this handy discussion looking for it: coerulea,aquinii,flamea,orlata | Orchid care & Tips
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Old 02-08-2022, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN Tomato View Post
I don't know so much from orchids, but I have taught Latin!
Try not to freak out when you hear the crazy ways gardeners and botanists pronounce Botanical Latin. It still throws me for a loop after all these years.
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2022, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estación seca View Post
Try not to freak out when you hear the crazy ways gardeners and botanists pronounce Botanical Latin. It still throws me for a loop after all these years.
Classical Latin, botanical Latin, and church Latin have some significant differences, but how do you know what’s “right”?

I, like you, am stuck on the classical form we were taught, but how do we even know that was correct? It’s not like we can go back a couple thousand years to ask….
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2022, 12:17 PM
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The way I learned it was from varieties of Cattleya intermedia. Var. aquinii (named after a priest who first found/grew it iirc) is the peloric form with lip color and structure on the two petals, and 'orlata' has the lip color also present on the side lobes so it goes all the way around the edge of the "tube" like lipstick.

In Cattleyas the alba form can come from two genes (maybe more). One turns color on and off, and the other is the color gene itself (pink/no pink). Both parents must have the same allele to produce alba offspring (color off+color off, or no pink+no pink)

Semi-alba is different and in most cases two semi-alba parents will not produce 100% semialba offspring.
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Old 02-09-2022, 02:21 PM
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Scientific and medical Latin and Greek are communication tools, so as long as everybody understands the rules and usage within that "dialect" it's all cool. And it's very handy to know things like in botanical Latin, species names like "vulgus" or "sativa" mean "the common species that everyone uses for stuff, you know the one" and not worry about how it was pronounced in Italy in a certain year BC. And people will understand that "semi alba" in that context means a particular color form in an orchid and not "half white" which it would literally translate to.

And Church Latin is a communication tool with its own evolved and carefully developed meanings for words too, and has developed a slightly different pronunciation over time, maybe because a lot of people experienced it primarily as written rather than spoken.

Although there is a stereotype of the uptight teacher who believes there is only one "right" way of speaking, I think most people who teach Latin today try to communicate that it was a living language, like English and every other language. That means that even in a particular year in Rome there would have been different "registers" (more/less formal ways of speaking), dialects, jargon for specialized trades, etc. We can see examples of this, for instance, if we compare a speech by Cicero (highly polished and reworked formal political rhetoric), with plays by Plautus and Terence which were intended to evoke how ordinary people of different backgrounds spoke "off the cuff". But it's true that sometimes people who have invested a lot of time in learning something start to get a feeling of ownership. We call an approach "prescriptivist" when someone wants to teach language "the way it should be", and "descriptivist" is talking about language the way people use it. I started out prescriptivist but am now very descriptivist (notice I ended a sentence with a preposition above, because that whole thing derives from someone's weird attempt to apply Latin grammar rules to English).

We can pick up a lot of clues about pronunciation luckily because there was a high level of literacy, including lots of public inscriptions, and the Empire was very ethnically and linguistically diverse. So we can see how foreign loanwords and names were spelled as they sounded to a Roman ear, and and how a Latin name was written in Greek or Arabic. Also from poetry because there were rules and art to making words fit into verses, although rhyming was not important as it commonly is in English verse. (Rhyming is an important way we know how pronunciation has changed in English, because some words rhymed in Chauncer's poetry, for instance, that don't rhyme today.)

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Old 02-10-2022, 09:58 AM
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(notice I ended a sentence with a preposition above, because that whole thing derives from someone's weird attempt to apply Latin grammar rules to English).

You mean I really can dangle my participles? What is this world coming to?
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Old 02-10-2022, 06:27 PM
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English is a Germanic language. What are called prepositions at the ends of sentences in English are often called in German separable prefixes, which are supposed to go at the end of the sentence.

In Latin languages verb infinitives don't require the helping preposition "to" that English verb infinitives require, so it is impossible to wedge an adjective into a verb. English verbs consist of two words, so it is an artificial rule to say one can't put an adjective between the "to" and the meat of the verb. For example, to boldly go. Some people would expect you to write to go boldly.
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Old 02-10-2022, 06:45 PM
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Just to confuse the "alba" designation some more... sometimes a flower will be almost completely white, with just a teensy bit of red pigment someplace. Those are often designated "albescent" or even "album" . The latter is really counter-intuitive, one would think that it would be the neuter version of alba, but that isn't how it's used... "alba" is used as a description for names that end in "-um" (neuter). May not be "good Latin" but that's the way the botany goes...
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