Seedling mix question.

[bil]

OK, trying my hand with some Catasetum and Clowesia seedlings.

What media do people find best to grow seedlings in?

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Firstly, what stage of seedling are you talking about?

Catasetum and Clowesia seedlings can look very different from their adult counterparts. If you haven't seen one before, they look like miniature vines with a single leaf.

If they are at this stage, I'd probably just use boiled Sphagnum moss.

[bil]

Fairly young I am thinking.

I assume that the moss should be reasonably open, not packed in tight?

Also I read a mention that the young plants like being in the same pot. Any idea why that is?

Also, light level.

My adult Cats are in the greenhouse where they get 50% shade from sunlight that can get to 11-12,000 foot candles here in southern Spain.

Would that be too bright for the seedlings tho?

Alternately they could go on the shaded outside table with the paphs and phrags, where there is less light.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Boil the Sphagnum moss. Squeeze the Sphagnum moss until it is damp. Do not allow the Sphagnum moss to stay sopping wet. Then I would just lay the boiled Sphagnum moss in a tray with drainage holes, then place the seedlings on top of the moss. Spray with a fungicide. Serenade Garden Disease Control Concentrate is a brand of biofungicide that I think is ok as a preventative measure. There are other brands of biofungicides and there are at least a couple of species of bacteria used as such, (Bacillus subtilis strain QST713 and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain D747). Cover the entire tray with a vented dome. A nice humidity dome is cheap to make yourself or to buy. I would start them off in a shady location first. Phalaenopsis level light should be good enough until they get larger. Do not fertilize until the seedlings start growing more roots.

The question about why orchid seedlings respond better when grown together is sort of not that well understood. Botanists are just starting to understand that plants indeed do communicate with one another by chemical means. Plant siblings can recognize each other and can also detect whether their neighbor are not their siblings even though all plants belong to the same species. Siblings have also been shown to be able to share resources and not compete against one another for those same resources. There might be some sort of survival mechanism involved, but what that is, I cannot say definitively at the moment.

Expect some heavy losses if you are getting seedlings at this stage in life.

[bil]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Boil the Sphagnum moss. Squeeze the Sphagnum moss until it is damp. Do not allow the Sphagnum moss to stay sopping wet. Then I would just lay the boiled Sphagnum moss in a tray with drainage holes, then place the seedlings on top of the moss. Spray with a fungicide. Serenade Garden Disease Control Concentrate is a brand of biofungicide that I think is ok as a preventative measure. There are other brands of biofungicides and there are at least a couple of species of bacteria used as such, (Bacillus subtilis strain QST713 and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain D747). Cover the entire tray with a vented dome. A nice humidity dome is cheap to make yourself or to buy. I would start them off in a shady location first. Phalaenopsis level light should be good enough until they get larger. Do not fertilize until the seedlings start growing more roots.

The question about why orchid seedlings respond better when grown together is sort of not that well understood. Botanists are just starting to understand that plants indeed do communicate with one another by chemical means. Plant siblings can recognize each other and can also detect whether their neighbor are not their siblings even though all plants belong to the same species. Siblings have also been shown to be able to share resources and not compete against one another for those same resources. There might be some sort of survival mechanism involved, but what that is, I cannot say definitively at the moment.

Expect some heavy losses if you are getting seedlings at this stage in life.

OK, thanks for that. I have a very good fungicide here (Mancozeb) that is safe on orchids. Hopefully it will be OK on the seedlings.
I also have a mini greenhouse type of thing used to start seeds off, so that should do well.

So, keep the moss moist but open, right?

Heavy losses. Well, that's life, isn't it? What are the big killers?

That was very interesting how siblings grow well together.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by bil

OK, thanks for that. I have a very good fungicide here (Mancozeb) that is safe on orchids. Hopefully it will be OK on the seedlings.
I also have a mini greenhouse type of thing used to start seeds off, so that should do well.

So, keep the moss moist but open, right?

Heavy losses. Well, that's life, isn't it? What are the big killers?

That was very interesting how siblings grow well together.

Yes, keep the moss moist but open.

Expect heavy losses due to their fragility. When they are this early in this stage, they are extremely fragile to handle. They usually don't have many roots. Some will only have one root per vine. They are susceptible to desiccation and disease as well. On top of that, they have to grow from vine-like to a plant with pseudobulbs. That will take quite a bit of time.

[estación seca]

This group of plants has completely wet roots for the summer rainy season. Even adults don't like any degree of drying during the growing season. And watch carefully for spider mites.

[bil]

Originally Posted by estación seca

This group of plants has completely wet roots for the summer rainy season. Even adults don't like any degree of drying during the growing season. And watch carefully for spider mites.

I hate spider mites. It's now at the stage where in future I will be using an acaricide as a preventative on my Catasetinae. They got in again this year and caused problems despite me being aware of the potential problem.

---------- Post added at 01:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Yes, keep the moss moist but open.

Expect heavy losses due to their fragility. When they are this early in this stage, they are extremely fragile to handle. They usually don't have many roots. Some will only have one root per vine. They are susceptible to desiccation and disease as well. On top of that, they have to grow from vine-like to a plant with pseudobulbs. That will take quite a bit of time.

Well, this is partly to see how it goes, as well as wanting those actual plants

In Europe, you can search thru every damn online shop for Catasetinae, hardly anyone has any. Hit an American site and you have a choice of hundreds.
You guys have no idea how lucky you are to have such choice.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

We, here in the US may have several Catasetinae to choose from, but they are not easy to come across compared to a Phal.

I am fairly confident I would be able to locate a species of Phal I'd like to grow compared to a Catasetum or a Clowesia I'd like to grow.

I understand that you'd like to get some Catasetum, but I am warning you ahead of time to let you know what you're getting yourself into.

I am not dissuading you from getting the flasks. I am just telling you something that you don't know about yet. And I totally understand that you'd like to give things a try. There's nothing wrong with that.

Many people who have never seen a Coryanthes, Stanhopea, Catasetum, or a Clowesia seedling and have never really read about how the seedlings are like would never guess that they go through life as a miniature vine-like plant before they become what you'd recognize as the adult form of those plants.

I still remember how it felt to be surprised by what I saw when I received seedlings from this group of orchids. The learning experience was quite excruciatingly painful. I learned the hard way how delicate they really were. I hope you can appreciate the knowledge I'm passing onto you and the rest of the orchid community who are surfing the web.

Take these words of advice for what it's worth. These are my .

I do hope you succeed with your endeavors.

[bil]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

We, here in the US may have several Catasetinae to choose from, but they are not easy to come across compared to a Phal.

I am fairly confident I would be able to locate a species of Phal I'd like to grow compared to a Catasetum or a Clowesia I'd like to grow.

I understand that you'd like to get some Catasetum, but I am warning you ahead of time to let you know what you're getting yourself into.

I am not dissuading you from getting the flasks. I am just telling you something that you don't know about yet. And I totally understand that you'd like to give things a try. There's nothing wrong with that.

Many people who have never seen a Coryanthes, Stanhopea, Catasetum, or a Clowesia seedling would never guess that they go through life as a miniature vine-like plant before they become what you'd recognize as the adult form of those plants.

I still remember how it felt to be surprised by what I saw when I received seedlings from this group of orchids. The learning experience was quite excruciatingly painful. I learned the hard way how delicate they really were. I hope you can appreciate the knowledge I'm passing onto you and the rest of the orchid community who are surfing the web.

Take these words of advice for what it's worth. These are my .

Hell, you can't turn over a rock without finding a phal. My point is, you have literally hundreds of Catasetinae to choose from. If I bought one of every Cat that I could find in Europe, I would be hard pressed to have 30.

Don't think I am not paying attention to what you suggest. I appreciate the comments and advice very much. I ask a lot of questions, and collect a lo of data before doing things as I like to give myself the best chance of success.

I appreciate that these are very fragile and need careful handling. I'm hoping that they will at least have enough growth on them to give me half a chance at least. I have attached a pic they post showing a sample of seedlings ready to post. (I do realise that these are not catasetinae seedlings.) I'm not buying a flask, just some seedlings.

Thanks for pointing out how radical the difference is between seedling and adult. It will be interesting to see them change if they live that long. Do you know what the technical term for that is?

One question I do have is, how do you balance the pots between too much and too little humidity?