Do all your phals spike at the same time?

[mascia]

Hi everyone,
This is my first year growing orchids so I'm really curious if this variation is usual or not.

Three weeks ago I noticed one of my phals started producing a new spike. I thought that in a couple of days all of them would have spikes as well, but today only 3 have, and other 3 only have little nubbins.

There doesn't seem to be any pattern. The first spike came from one that wasn't even looking that good and only produced one leaf since it was mounted, while huge ones with 9 leaves are still showing no signs of flowering at all.

I thought that since all of them get the same conditions regarding light and temperatures they would initate spikes in a narrower window, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Could you please share your experiences?

Thanks!

---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------

I forgot to mention that here where I live, mid-october is when all of the mounted phalaenopsis are in full bloom. Here's a post I made about it last year, if anyone is interested:

Phalaenopsis in bloom everywhere

So it does seem a little early for spikes. Unless it takes them 5 months from spike to bloom?

[Dollythehun]

Mine seem to have no rhyme or reason. They generally spike in mid Winter...unless they don't. I have one sending up a totally unexpected 2nd spike. Individuals all.

[jkofferdahl]

First, I'm a Phal Phreak. By no means am I am expert, but I've been around them for almost 40 years. One thing I've learned in that time is that just as soon as you think you know what a Phal is going to do, it does something else. The more I learn about them the more I come to believe that Phals master their growers rather than the other way around. They're smarter than we are. So it's possible to generalize about them, but a bit trickier to talk specifics.

A part of the reason for that comes from the fact that most of the Phals sold on the market are hybrids, and pretty complex in the parentage. It's fairly easy to predict when a particular species will bloom, especially in nature. Like other blooming plants, many orchids are seasonal. For example, when three months or so ago I noticed that a Phal equestris was spiking I also knew that my others would soon follow - as predicted, all of them did; that said, there's close to a six week lag between when the first spiked until the last (and then there's the one that's been in constant bloom for close to 18 months now). I also know that my stuartianas and schillerianas aren't going to bloom now, but will spike again late Fall or early Winter and bloom in January or February. Different species will of Phals will bloom at different times of the year, but they work hard within a species to bloom together since doing so is quite advantageous to species perpetuation. Even so, if a species plant decided to bloom completely out of season from the others then that's just what it's decided to do, and especially if the plant is grown in cultivation rather than in a jungle.

Hybrids are more difficult to predict. The more complex the ancestry of the plant, the more likely it is that it has ancestors from different species which have different natural blooming periods. Rather than being confused, though, a Phal solves that by perhaps blooming a couple of times a year, or perhaps by blooming at somewhat different times from year to year. Of course, to make it even more difficult, commercial growers usually push their plants for sale to bloom when they want to sell them, and so when you buy the plant in bloom it may actually be off from its natural cycle - AND might not bloom for a year or more once the initial flowers fade.

That was all a long-winded way of saying that you don't have a thing to worry about and the Phals not now in spike might go next week, next month, or in three months, or in six. Phals do what they want when they want, and frankly, my dear, just don't give a damn what you want. And I think that's why I love them so much!

[mascia]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

First, I'm a Phal Phreak. By no means am I am expert, but I've been around them for almost 40 years. One thing I've learned in that time is that just as soon as you think you know what a Phal is going to do, it does something else. The more I learn about them the more I come to believe that Phals master their growers rather than the other way around. They're smarter than we are. So it's possible to generalize about them, but a bit trickier to talk specifics.

A part of the reason for that comes from the fact that most of the Phals sold on the market are hybrids, and pretty complex in the parentage. It's fairly easy to predict when a particular species will bloom, especially in nature. Like other blooming plants, many orchids are seasonal. For example, when three months or so ago I noticed that a Phal equestris was spiking I also knew that my others would soon follow - as predicted, all of them did; that said, there's close to a six week lag between when the first spiked until the last (and then there's the one that's been in constant bloom for close to 18 months now). I also know that my stuartianas and schillerianas aren't going to bloom now, but will spike again late Fall or early Winter and bloom in January or February. Different species will of Phals will bloom at different times of the year, but they work hard within a species to bloom together since doing so is quite advantageous to species perpetuation. Even so, if a species plant decided to bloom completely out of season from the others then that's just what it's decided to do, and especially if the plant is grown in cultivation rather than in a jungle.

Hybrids are more difficult to predict. The more complex the ancestry of the plant, the more likely it is that it has ancestors from different species which have different natural blooming periods. Rather than being confused, though, a Phal solves that by perhaps blooming a couple of times a year, or perhaps by blooming at somewhat different times from year to year. Of course, to make it even more difficult, commercial growers usually push their plants for sale to bloom when they want to sell them, and so when you buy the plant in bloom it may actually be off from its natural cycle - AND might not bloom for a year or more once the initial flowers fade.

That was all a long-winded way of saying that you don't have a thing to worry about and the Phals not now in spike might go next week, next month, or in three months, or in six. Phals do what they want when they want, and frankly, my dear, just don't give a damn what you want. And I think that's why I love them so much!

Thank you for your reply!

I tried to find some more information and as I understood, phals that need a drop in temperature (pretty much all complex hybrids) will accumulate cooling hours, and spike once they achieve enough hours.

Some varieties probably need less hours than others, and I guess that's why they spike first. It also seems that hot temperatures after cooling has initiated will delay spiking, so that has to be taken in account as well, as I do get the occasional hot day even during winter.

I ran into this really interesting article while researching the subject, if anyone is interested:
How Temperature and Photoperiod Impact Orchid Spiking | Greenhouse Grower

[jkofferdahl]

Originally Posted by mascia

Thank you for your reply!

I tried to find some more information and as I understood, phals that need a drop in temperature (pretty much all complex hybrids) will accumulate cooling hours, and spike once they achieve enough hours.

Some varieties probably need less hours than others, and I guess that's why they spike first. It also seems that hot temperatures after cooling has initiated will delay spiking, so that has to be taken in account as well, as I do get the occasional hot day even during winter.

I ran into this really interesting article while researching the subject, if anyone is interested:
How Temperature and Photoperiod Impact Orchid Spiking | Greenhouse Grower

I sort of agree with the article but I also sort of don't. Temperature does play a role, and can certainly have some influence on Phals spiking. I don't think, though, that the term "cool" is correct. "Cool" and "tropical plants" don't exactly go together. What they like is a period where the temperature at night is notably lower than during the day. If the daytime temperature is 90 then a drop to 75 at night, while still quite warm, is a good drop. Intentionally putting Phals in places where the temperature drops below 60 with the idea that it's going to cause the plant to initiate a spike is, in my experience, the wrong approach. You may see some issues with spiking if the daytime high is 75 and the nighttime low is 73, which is common in a house. As people, we don't like a lot of temperature change but Phals do.

Now, what I've just said there is based more on experience than science. Pretty much everything I say is, actually. When it's not based on more, uh, base elements. I'm sure you'll get other responses which disagree, just as you'll find published articles or books which disagree. It's like that with orchids. In the conditions I'm able to provide for my plants I see what happens, and so use that more than book-learning as a base. That's also what orchid book authors do (at least to an extent), so most of those books and articles are also slanted by the conditions and experience of the author. After another year with the plants you'll know.

[katrina]

Jkofferdahl is right about the temps. There are many spring/summer bloomers and since temps are on the rise during those seasons, it likely isn't lower night temps that triggers the spike. More likely an increase in daytime temps or "spring rains".

Once you've grown the phals for a couple of years you will begin to see a pattern. Even after a couple of years...you likely won't see specific times for flowering but rather "seasons".

[mascia]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

I sort of agree with the article but I also sort of don't. Temperature does play a role, and can certainly have some influence on Phals spiking. I don't think, though, that the term "cool" is correct. "Cool" and "tropical plants" don't exactly go together. What they like is a period where the temperature at night is notably lower than during the day. If the daytime temperature is 90 then a drop to 75 at night, while still quite warm, is a good drop. Intentionally putting Phals in places where the temperature drops below 60 with the idea that it's going to cause the plant to initiate a spike is, in my experience, the wrong approach. You may see some issues with spiking if the daytime high is 75 and the nighttime low is 73, which is common in a house. As people, we don't like a lot of temperature change but Phals do.

Now, what I've just said there is based more on experience than science. Pretty much everything I say is, actually. When it's not based on more, uh, base elements. I'm sure you'll get other responses which disagree, just as you'll find published articles or books which disagree. It's like that with orchids. In the conditions I'm able to provide for my plants I see what happens, and so use that more than book-learning as a base. That's also what orchid book authors do (at least to an extent), so most of those books and articles are also slanted by the conditions and experience of the author. After another year with the plants you'll know.

Yes, I guess "cool" is not the correct term here. They do not need low temperatures like a Den nobile, but it seems they do require a drop in the average temperature. I don't think the difference between day and night is required if the average temperature is lower.

This is just anectode, but I grow all my phals outside and during summer I have highs of 28/29 and lows of 22/23. That's a 6°C difference between day and night. Right now I'm getting 17/18°C at night and 24/25°C during the day, which is pretty much the same difference, but 5°C lower on average, and it was enough to initiate the spikes.

On the other hand, phals grown on the northeast coast of Brazil where temperatures are pretty much the same year-round do not ever spike. Their day/night difference is even higher than mine as their highs are higher, but that doesn't seem to matter.

I guess I'll learn more with experience. Thank you!

---------- Post added at 10:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 AM ----------

Originally Posted by katrina

Jkofferdahl is right about the temps. There are many spring/summer bloomers and since temps are on the rise during those seasons, it likely isn't lower night temps that triggers the spike. More likely an increase in daytime temps or "spring rains".

Once you've grown the phals for a couple of years you will begin to see a pattern. Even after a couple of years...you likely won't see specific times for flowering but rather "seasons".

Hi! I only started growing orchids myself last year, but I've been paying attention for a while and I don't think I've ever seen an "off season" one, except for the ones bought in stores, of course.

Here all complex hybrids will be in full bloom during spring, which means they spiked during fall/winter when temperature dropped. When I say 'all' I literally mean it, as there are lots of phals mounted here. Check my post from last year:
Phalaenopsis in bloom everywhere

The exceptions to this rule are the summer blooming species like the bellina or violacea. Those indeed will only bloom during summer/early fall, at least for me.

I think there might be a difference between phals grown on a temperate climate, where temperature has to be artificially controlled during several months of the year, and the ones grown on frost-free climates.

I noticed that a lot of information about them that I find online simply isn't true for me. I read more than once that they do not tolarate low temperatures and their buds will blast if night time lows reach 15°C or lower. We get night temperatures consistently below 15°C for at least 3 months of the year, and during cold spells it can get close to 5°C, but they all seem to be doing fine. I also see many phals getting 6 or more hours of sun everyday and looking good.

I guess that's what I love about them..together with dendrobiums and cattleyas they are almost impossible to kill!

[Ray]

Dr. Wang is a professional grower, or at least works on their behalf, so is focusing on a reliable way to control the induction of flower spikes.

Sure, they can-, and will happen at random times, but if you are trying to force them into spike, lowering the average growing temperature is the only reliable method known. We also cannot forget that a plant needs to be given an opportunity to build up sufficient stores to even be able to bloom, so "cold abuse" might not always be effective.

I know a grower in South America who experimented by keeping phalaenopsis plants above 100 degrees F for a couple of years. The plants grew and grew, into massive plants with a dozen or so pairs of leaves, but never spiking. He then exposed them to considerably lower temperatures, and - POW!!! - each threw out at least a half-dozen spikes.

Yes, "cool", in this case, is a relative term.

[L. Vilas Boas]

Well, I am still a begginer but I my parents have about 7 phals and while they usually bloom on the same season, this year something different happened - or, is happening.
They made some improvements in the house, so the plants changed locations. One of the phals ended up getting a lot more light exposure than the rest, and this one also happens to be the one exposed to more fresh air, meaning it gets more temperature variation than the others. Now, here in the southern hemisphere temperatures are (finally!) cooling, and this Phal more exposed to everything, is the only one that spiked.
It could be that the others will do so, later in the season, but temperature in this case could have accelerated this brave Phal.

[Zabeta]

My phals never spiked for me in my old apartment, which was on the hot side, even with the windows open in winter. Last winter, though, I moved to a cooler place and all of the hybrid phals that could be expected to spike did.

Most of them started spiking in early Jan., but a few started a couple months before or after that, so there was a third of a year span of time where the spiking occurred on roughly the same type of orchids getting virtually identical conditions. I'm particularly excited about my Doritaenopsis Cherry Wine 'Newberry'.

The species phals are a different story. Of the ones I've had at least a year, none of them have done any spiking or flowering. Hopefully in the upcoming year!