Phalaenopsis and Denbrodium Nobile repotting and after care

[jkofferdahl]

Originally Posted by D_novice

EVERYONE else says water first, then fertilize. Everyone! That's what I thought, anyway. I usually water once then wait, to let the media get wet; then water a second time, pouring water through the pot; then and only then fertilize. The idea is that the salts shock the roots. Pretty amazing that Ray's advice is the diametric opposite of that.

Here is one modest version of the usual advice: "Prior to fertilization, the plants are watered generously with regular water to flush accumulated salts from the potting media and to pre-wet the plant roots. The fertilizer mixture is then applied a few minutes later."
Austin Creek Orchids - Orchid Culture

Maybe the plants I succeed with like it this way, and the ones that don't like me would prefer to be fertilized first!

Yeah. I learned a lot of how I do things from a botanist, and that was close to 40 years ago. Things in arts like botany are a lot better and changing than am I. I pretty much still follow the routines as developed when working with him, changing some things if I found newer and better, even experimenting with some aspects, but essentially remaining old school because I'm an old person (according to my children, at least). My fertilizing methods work for me and for my plants and so on I go. That said, I have no doubt that anything Ray says on his site is based on solid research. Not just reading and Googling, but getting dirty hands with flasks and beakers and science stuff. It's right.

The plants I haven't succeeded with disliked me, Period. They chose death over life with me.

[estación seca]

Originally Posted by D_novice

EVERYONE else says water first, then fertilize. Everyone!

Everyone who hasn't read anything about agriculture in 50 years says to water first. They also miss their carburetor, party line phone, home electrical fuse box, wax cylinder sound recordings and black & white TV.

You want the plant to take up as much nutrient solution as possible. Fertilizer costs more money than water. Watering first means the plant takes up water with no nutrients when it could have been taking up nutrients. Then you apply wasted fertilizer.

Fertilizer burn is caused by applying too much fertilizer, not by failing to water first.

[chantrelle]

Originally Posted by D_novice

EVERYONE else says water first, then fertilize. Everyone! That's what I thought, anyway. Ray's advice is the diametric opposite of that.

Here is one modest version of the usual advice: "Prior to fertilization, the plants are watered generously with regular water to flush accumulated salts from the potting media and to pre-wet the plant roots. The fertilizer mixture is then applied a few minutes later."

However, after reading on Ray first : Don’t Water First, Then Feed It just makes so much sens to do so as it recreates as closely as possible what occurs in the plant natural environment.

As said by Ray when it's rain the nutrients get flush first when it rains. And as explained the velamen on the roots traps the nutrient ions immediately and hold onto them. Therefore, if you If you water first, you saturate the velamen.

I'm so glad I found that information out because it is what I'm doing to do from now on.

---------- Post added at 04:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 AM ----------

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

I prefer unglazed terra cotta pots, and the azalea-pot shape is preferable to a deeper pot.

Light-wise, Phals like relatively low light, though they can adjust to a slightly higher level. An East or West window should be ideal, or a South facing with mid-day shading. Between waterings allow the media to dry completely. You can stick a wood cooking skewer into the pot and leave it for 10 minutes, ny minerals which can build up in the pot.

Do you prefer unglazed terra cotta pot because you are in a warm climat and they are better at keeping the root not to hot ? Or you also fell it all breath better ?

I was thinking of using clear plastic pot at first because I feel safer seeing the whole sha-bang. Plus I have to say that 24 hours after the watering I like to put them in the decorative pots.

About the completely dry... To me completely dry is completely dry... I grow succulentes plants.

Is the stick a real good indicator ? I was going by the roots colour and of course the wait and look of the bark.

Thanks

[bil]

Originally Posted by Pakmanwong

Hi Bil! Thanks for responding! I have a few pictures of my Dendrobium. Can you take a look at them? Do you think I need to repot it? Thanks!

As was said, I too have a pathological distrust of the potting mix in anything I buy. So, I always repot. In a pot I would use fine bark, but this year I am moving more to supporting them on a pad of moss, because if it isn't in a pot, it dries better and doesn't seem to break down so badly.
If you don't repot now, do it as soon as the blooms fall.

[D_novice]

Originally Posted by chantrelle

However, after reading on Ray first : Don’t Water First, Then Feed It just makes so much sens to do so as it recreates as closely as possible what occurs in the plant natural environment.

Ray's pages are not referenced, so there's no way to know how he came up with this information.

He also says that in nature the plant gets the same concentration of nutrients at every watering, which is patently absurd and doesn't stand up to a whiff of scrutiny.

You think there is always the exact same amount of leaf litter, bird poop, half-eaten rodent fruit dropping, feathers, dead insects above and around the plant?

It might make sense to recreate the natural environment, but it also makes sense to not take someone at their word simply because it's written in glowing pixels on the internet. Try comparing sources, and getting a number of different opinions, rather than relying on what sounds intuitive. That is how to research something.

Many people growing thriving award-winning orchids are watering first, estacion seca and Ray's scientific knowledge aside. It doesn't mean one way or another is right or wrong, but the "feed first" isn't so logical as to make everyone doing it a different way a backwards idiot as E.S. implies.

[chantrelle]

Originally Posted by D_novice

Ray's pages are not referenced, so there's no way to know how he came up with this information.

It might make sense to recreate the natural environment, but it also makes sense to not take someone at their word simply because it's written in glowing pixels on the internet. Try comparing sources, and getting a number of different opinions, rather than relying on what sounds intuitive. That is how to research something.

Thanks for the advice. However while I may be very juvenile with orchids I fell I'm very capable to know when to trust information that are not referenced and when I fell I should need referenced information.

That does not mean I don't respect the fact that you fell different about this.

Regards,

[D_novice]

Originally Posted by chantrelle

Thanks for the advice. However while I may be very juvenile with orchids I fell I'm very capable to know when to trust information that are not referenced and when I fell I should need referenced information.

That does not mean I don't respect the fact that you fell different about this.

Regards,

I enjoyed a visit to your province this past summer. Someday I'd like to head north and see the wild country of Northern Quebec. It must be amazing.

[bil]

The most logical thing is to feed weakly at every watering. That's about the closest you can come to nature

[D_novice]

I just read in the CSA journal that the Huntington Museum (Pasadena, Los Angeles County, CA, USA) grows its 7000+ paphs using city water, PPM 200-800, fertilizes with only calcium nitrate, includes 20% sheet moss in their mix, and waters them every ten days in winter, 2x/week in summer (plus misting). And they are growing fabulously.

So, there's no one recipe. I'm sure there are hundreds of different ideas on how to grow and feed everything, including just paphs. And I bet none of them call for only Ca Nitrate and 200-800 ppm water.

Even if some details were left incomplete in the description in CSA journal, to me its further evidence that lots of different things work, and that rationales based on observation or experimentation or speculation are just that. Different things work, plants are adaptable.

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[bil]

Originally Posted by D_novice

And they are growing fabulously.

So, there's no one recipe. I'm sure there are hundreds of different ideas on how to grow and feed everything, including just paphs.

Quite right. I used to get this all the time when I was keeping koi carp. I'd say "Do this, don't do that" and people would say "Well my neighbour just uses a barrel of gravel for his filter and his pond water is lovely and clear!"

Fact is any filter works right up to the point where the wheels fall off, and the everything dies.

With orchids, fertiliser is possibly the least significent element. So, you can grow them with no fertiliser at all, and still get good results. The only real danger is if you use to much and burn the roots. That's one reason I like the use of ultra weak every watering (excepting Stans and Catasetums that are pigs). Plus orchids are evolved to get by with very low levels of fertiliser, and what Ray says makes good sense.