Phal - issues with fertilizer, pots, and environment, mainly - just issues... - Orchid Board

acaldwell3590 · #1 03-13-2017, 04:32 PM

I'm sure there are a million places these questions are discussed but I am so overwhelmed with trying to find answers. I figured I would just start here with all the questions I have and see where it goes.

A quick little background. I have 2 phals. One I've had for about a year and the other I've had for around 6 months and I saved it from death at the grocery store. My first phal flowered once and the flowers died within the month and it now has a Keiki (aww!) The other has never flowered for me, though I figured that's because it was poorly taken care of.

So, I got these plants and recently went and bought new bark for it after extensive research and realized that for many reasons, I am a bad orchid mama. I never repotted them from the moment that I first got them and I never fertilized them. Honestly. these are the first plants I've ever kept alive for any amount of time so really I had no idea what I am doing. Now, I'm OBSESSED with these guys and want to care for them as best I can. This past weekend I went out and bought them new pots with lots of air holes for air flow. I realized that my first phal has quite a few root issues and had to trim but a couple of good ones still (I overwatered I believe) and the other phal was doing well in this regard. So here's question one - do I wait to water them for a bit so they can get used to their environment or water them as per usual? (going to try the bamboo stick method)

Then I found the fertilizer with a ratio of 30-10-10 since I have bark. This is where another question comes in. I know there is a great debate about weakly weekly or monthly fertilizing, what's your opinion? Also when I do fertilize how do I do it? This feels like a stupid question but once I mix the fertilizer do I just pour it into the plant like I water it? (OY!)

Then my final questions come about their environment. Currently, these two sit on my desk. Three walls of my building are glass so I thought they were getting enough light, though I've read some information where I'm not so sure. I sit about 5 or so yards from the window and there are low cube walls (they have a direct shot of the window), what experiences have you had? Also, it's obviously a climate controlled building that never goes below 72 and sometimes goes up to 78 is there something else I should be doing to help replicate nature?

Sorry for such a long post but I am desperate for some understanding and help. I love these guys and want to care for them well.

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

Dollythehun · #2 03-13-2017, 04:56 PM

Welcome! I water as soon as I Repot ( with a couple of exceptions). How bright is their area? Could you comfortably read there? I water weakly, every watering and flush when I remember and I fertilize just like I water. I like to soak my plants but, one of the other members is moving me away from that technique. If you bought ceramic pots with holes, be aware that they will keep your plants moister. Hope this helps. But, as you have noticed, we almost all have different methods for the same plants. Partly due to our climates.

jkofferdahl · #3 03-13-2017, 10:04 PM

Welcome to the Orchid Board! This place is filled with fine people who are happy to help, and also to learn. Glad you've joined us!

I'm going to try to address (not answer) your questions. I think Carol did a fine job doing so, though there are a couple of points where we might not agree. And whomever posts after me is bound to disagree with some of what I say. As Carol said, we have a lot of different methods, and if what we do keeps the plants happy then it's right. Don't be afraid to experiment some and see what is best for your plants.

When I repot, I used well-soaked bark, so it's already pretty wet. However, if you didn't pre-soak the bark then I'd suggest a thorough soaking of the plants. If you did, don't water them until the media is thoroughly dry.

When I water, I flush the pots rather than soaking them. In my opinion, the potting medium serves more as an insulator to keep roots from drying too quickly because our conditions are less than ideal. When I water, I water the roots and not the medium; yeah, both get watered but my intent is the provision of water TO the roots and not the bark. When the roots are wet is when they also most need air, and soaking them for more them a few moments deprives them of air. In fact, this is why I prefer to either mount or pot in baskets. Further along these same lines, I strongly prefer open pots and open media (if the plant isn't mounted) because they allow for excellent airflow to the roots, and Phalaenopsis roots love airflow. To my way of thinking, if the media is able to dry so that I have to water the plant every other day, or even every day when the plant is active, that's fine. My mounted Phals get watered twice daily when they're active.

Regarding fertilizer, I'm of the "fertilize weekly, weakly" school. I mix at about 1/4 strength. It's fine to just pour from the mixing container onto the roots. Fertilizers can leave mineral deposits in pots after a while, so after every 3 or 4 waterings with fertilizer it's a good idea to flush the pot with plain water. The balance you bought, 30-10-10, is fine for how you are growing. Your orchids will absorb what they want, and store it for when they need it. If you want to get more intense about fertilization, Ray (that's his name here) is the guru.

Phals are fairly low-light plants and yours look healthy. That one is supporting a nice keiki is a good indication! I suspect the light they have is a bit on the low side, however. When you hold your hand 5 or 6 inches from the plant, does it cast a fuzzy shadow or a fairly well-defined one?

Since you have an air plant there I presume that you have a mister. Climate-controlled buildings are usually fairly low on the humidity scale, so a couple of sprays a day may help them.

Unglazed ceramic pots with lots of holes are my preference. I also really like plastic basket-pots (and even use sphagnum in them on occasion). A glazed but very open pot like yours will, I think, still dry faster than will a plastic pot. A plastic pot is just about my last choice for most adult orchids.

acaldwell3590 · #4 03-14-2017, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

I'm going to try to address (not answer) your questions. I think Carol did a fine job doing so, though there are a couple of points where we might not agree. And whomever posts after me is bound to disagree with some of what I say. As Carol said, we have a lot of different methods, and if what we do keeps the plants happy then it's right. Don't be afraid to experiment some and see what is best for your plants.

In fact, this is why I prefer to either mount or pot in baskets. Further along these same lines, I strongly prefer open pots and open media (if the plant isn't mounted) because they allow for excellent airflow to the roots, and Phalaenopsis roots love airflow. To my way of thinking, if the media is able to dry so that I have to water the plant every other day, or even every day when the plant is active, that's fine. My mounted Phals get watered twice daily when they're active.

Phals are fairly low-light plants and yours look healthy. That one is supporting a nice keiki is a good indication! I suspect the light they have is a bit on the low side, however. When you hold your hand 5 or 6 inches from the plant, does it cast a fuzzy shadow or a fairly well-defined one?

Since you have an air plant there I presume that you have a mister. Climate-controlled buildings are usually fairly low on the humidity scale, so a couple of sprays a day may help them.

A plastic pot is just about my last choice for most adult orchids.

First, thank you so much for your input! I really appreciate all of the information you took the time to give! I appreciate all of the different points of view people have about their orchid babies, the more I know the more I'm bound to find something that works for me! As for potting and air flow - oy, I had no idea until last week. My poor little orchids were still in their terrible plastic pots from the grocery store. I'm hoping they will be at least quite a bit happier in these for now until I learn a bit more and decide how to move forward. Mostly I just want them to grow some happier roots. Thank you for the suggestion of misting. My next thought was to get these guys a humidity tray of sorts just to maybe make them a bit happier. The lighting factor is a bit tougher to discern. I have those lovely florescent overhead lights and it's a cloudy wintry mess outside so I can decide if it's low light or just winter. I may end up moving these guys home which will be another can of worms to figure out where to put them.

---------- Post added at 08:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by bil

As said, everyone has their own way.

I like to repot immediately on purchase. I have little faith that they will be properly potted.

I pot them up in coarse bark (2") that has been sieved to remove the fine stuff, and I use a wide, shallow pot. (Remember if you use coarse bark you cannot overpot.
I don't soak it but pot it dry and leave for 2 days to let any breakages heal.

When I water I use RO water with the bare minimum of fertiliser in every watering (Go to 'first Ray's ' page and read all the fertiliser stuff). Basically fertiliser is the least of your worries (unless you use to much), and frankly almost any fertiliser will do as long as it is a very weak solution.

I spray the media till water runs out the bottom. I do that once a week in winter, three times in summer.

Thanks for the info! I seem to have gone along the same lines as you with the potting. I wasn't so sure how to do it but I knew it had to be done sooner rather than later. I'm hoping to just keep giving them some TLC and seeing improvements.

---------- Post added at 08:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 AM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dollythehun

Another thought, after seeing your picture, is that there are very attractive plant lights available. I see from your location that winters can be dreary and you may want to suppliment. You can clip one to your cube or they are free standing, as your plants do look a little dark green ( in my opinion). A quick search on Amazon will turn up lots. (And thanks for doing the Walk). Also, to up the humidity, you can add a low light leafy plant, like a pothos, which will give off some moisture (although Phals aren't very fussy).

Ohh that's a good idea! I also noticed the darkness of the leaves and originally thought this was a good thing. Never assume! This is good to know even if I have to move them home. I don't have the best lighting at home either so that's super beneficial information!

jkofferdahl · #5 03-14-2017, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acaldwell3590

My next thought was to get these guys a humidity tray of sorts just to maybe make them a bit happier.

Humidity trays are pretty much useless. I use them to catch water run-off, but not to raise humidity.

acaldwell3590 · #6 03-14-2017, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

Humidity trays are pretty much useless. I use them to catch water run-off, but not to raise humidity.

Good to know! Everyone and their mother seem to think this is the way to go. So you mentioned misting, I'm ok to just mist the whole plant? Everyone has me SUPER paranoid about leaving any kind of water on my plant and getting crown rot.

bil · #7 03-14-2017, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acaldwell3590

Good to know! Everyone and their mother seem to think this is the way to go. So you mentioned misting, I'm ok to just mist the whole plant? Everyone has me SUPER paranoid about leaving any kind of water on my plant and getting crown rot.

Don't sweat it.

I have yet to kill a phal from crown rot, even tho at every watering for over two years I have washed the leaves down and fill the crown with water out of spite. (It drains out in seconds).
What will give it crown rot, is too much heat or cold. Possibly too cold water to water it will do it, but wetting the crown? No way. I always advise morning watering with ambient temp water.

Mind you, any other type of orchid? Always water the media, not the plant, or you will risk killing them thru fungal attack.

D_novice · #8 03-28-2017, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

Humidity trays are pretty much useless. I use them to catch water run-off, but not to raise humidity.

With all due respect to Mr. Offerdahl, whose orchid-growing results speak for themselves, the topic of humidity trays has been passionately and thoroughly bandied about in other threads in this forum. Some esteemed OB participants equate them with doctors recommending smoking for its health benefits!....

This topic is of interest to me, since I grow in windows, don't have much of a greenhouse, and own several humidity trays.

For getting plants and a room from 30% humidity to 65%, there's no question a humidity tray can't do it by itself, esp. compared to a humidifier, mister, misting by hand, etc.

However, I think one of the problems with humidity trays is the lack of surface area in which the water can evaporate into the air. A flat water surface, covered with a thick plastic grate that limits air movement, and in which the water is probably covered with a thin film of who knows what that "tightens up" the surface tension, is a different animal than a dish or tray or humidity tray containing a porous mineral substrate live lava rock or other pumice, gravel, coarse sand, or even expanded leca clay in which the water can easily evaporate.

I have been playing with my humidity trays, and misting and some cheap hygrometers. The humidity is highest on top of the damp gravel, and still better than no tray + gravel at the level of the top of the plant (so the undersides of the leaves, and the lower leaves, are getting a benefit of increased humidity.) Misting is still best, but it isn't passive, and machines are a whole different order of complexity.

So - I would recommend against an absolute (hyperbolic?!) statement "humidity trays are useless and do nothing", but rather (like so many things) "it depends". And it depends on a million different things, like what plants, ambient room humidity, what else you're trying to help with humidity, etc.

And, for those who think the AOS publications department hasn't read anything or grown any orchids in 5 or 6 decades, even some - gasp! - growers with sterling reputations still recommend this outdated (

) old-fashioned trick:

Humidity: 50% to 80% relative humidity can be provided by placing the pots in the tray filled with 1" to 2" of gravel, and 3/4 inch of water. The evaporation will increase the humidity around the plants.

Fox Valley Orchids, Culture Instructions

jkofferdahl · #9 03-28-2017, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_novice

With all due respect to Mr. Offerdahl, whose orchid-growing results speak for themselves, the topic of humidity trays has been passionately and thoroughly bandied about in other threads in this forum. Some esteemed OB participants equate them with doctors recommending smoking for its health benefits!....

This topic is of interest to me, since I grow in windows, don't have much of a greenhouse, and own several humidity trays.

For getting plants and a room from 30% humidity to 65%, there's no question a humidity tray can't do it by itself, esp. compared to a humidifier, mister, misting by hand, etc.

However, I think one of the problems with humidity trays is the lack of surface area in which the water can evaporate into the air. A flat water surface, covered with a thick plastic grate that limits air movement, and in which the water is probably covered with a thin film of who knows what that "tightens up" the surface tension, is a different animal than a dish or tray or humidity tray containing a porous mineral substrate live lava rock or other pumice, gravel, coarse sand, or even expanded leca clay in which the water can easily evaporate.

I have been playing with my humidity trays, and misting and some cheap hygrometers. The humidity is highest on top of the damp gravel, and still better than no tray + gravel at the level of the top of the plant (so the undersides of the leaves, and the lower leaves, are getting a benefit of increased humidity.) Misting is still best, but it isn't passive, and machines are a whole different order of complexity.

So - I would recommend against an absolute (hyperbolic?!) statement "humidity trays are useless and do nothing", but rather (like so many things) "it depends". And it depends on a million different things, like what plants, ambient room humidity, what else you're trying to help with humidity, etc.

And, for those who think the AOS publications department hasn't read anything or grown any orchids in 5 or 6 decades, even some - gasp! - growers with sterling reputations still recommend this outdated (

) old-fashioned trick:

Humidity: 50% to 80% relative humidity can be provided by placing the pots in the tray filled with 1" to 2" of gravel, and 3/4 inch of water. The evaporation will increase the humidity around the plants.

Fox Valley Orchids, Culture Instructions

Dan, you're one of the last people on the OB with whom I would choose to disagree. Sadly, I must.

I'm afraid I still need to speak to the futility of humidity trays, with all respect given to those who appreciate them. The amount of water necessary to raise the humidity of a standard room in a house is significant when the goal is to raise it more than a few percentages. The evaporation rate from a 18 x 9 inch tray might slightly raise the humidity an inch above the tray but that is going to rapidly dissipate, and by the time you arrive at the top of a 4" tall pot it's dispersed. Adding stones, gravel, sand, or whatever may increase the surface area but still isn't going to be enough to make an effective increase in evaporation, and thus humidity.

As an experiment, take the tank of an ultrasonic humidifier. Mine holds about a half gallon. For me to increase the humidity in my plant room from 30% to about 65% I run the humidifier on high and it disperses all of the water in about 8 to 10 hours. If I empty the same tank into a humidity tray most of the water is still in the tray a couple of days later. Obviously the humidity isn't being adequately raised by a humidity tray if not enough water evaporates.

Measuring the humidity right on top of the tray is going to give a false reading. Right at the tray you'll have the highest concentration of evaporate, while if rapidly dissipates even inches from the tray. By the time you measure humidity even four inches above the tray you'll see a significant drop off. Yes, if the tray is covered by plants and those plants' leaves are above the tray, they will get a bit of extra humidity, and the leaves may slightly hold humidity to the tray, but again that's not going to be significant.

Now, add to this that as you raise humidity you're also going to want to raise air movement (unless you enjoy dealing with fungal issues). Most growers use fans. The air blowing from these fans is going to push that wee bit of extra humidity from the tray out into and through the room and away from under the plants. Poof, you've just more than lost any slight advantage gained from the tray. Think of it as using a small butane lighter: if you touch the flame it's obviously going to burn you but it's not going to cause the room temperature to measurably rise.

To get a reasonably accurate idea of the humidity around your plants put your hydrometer several feet away, out of the breeze from the fans, from where your plants are growing. That way you're measuring more what's truly in the air of the room rather than just inches from your plants.

Optimist · #10 03-14-2017, 12:22 AM

In this office building, do they always keep the lights on? Orchids need definite dark/light periods. They have a specialized photosynthetic system, and are not like "normal" plants. They also need cooler nights, (62-65) and your "day temps" sound okay, but between 70 and 80F is ideal. Since 70 is the low end, they might think it is winter. Most flower only once a year, the bloom lasting up to 4-6 months. Often after stress or sometimes re-potting, they will not flower that year. Those pots are lovely-- if you water in a green house. When you water, you need to drench and have it flow out. You may need to water over a bucket. When the roots start poking out, and you need a re-pot, you will most likely have to chose between breaking the pot, and good roots.