unspoken truths...

[Roberta]

I think it is important to focus on the objective - to try to come as close as possible to what a particular orchid needs. So "always" and "never" are usually overbroad. Indeed in the tropics it rains at night... but it's warm when it does so. (Winters tend to be drier - when it is colder, drier is better) I know that I water (especially outdoors) in the evening or very early morning in summer, but in winter (in the absence of rain) not until the sun has been up for a couple of hours. Objective - I don't want the water to evaporate before the plant can absorb it in summer, and I don't want it to be wet when it is cold (it may still be chilly when I water in those winter mornings, but the sun will be along to help dry things out within a relatively short time)

[Mocres]

I think that a bigger problem than water is the medium we plant the orchids in. My phals have been in 'full water culture' (that is, in jars with water, without medium) for more than a year and are totally happy. They've grown lots of roots, bloomed last year and are producing flower spikes.
So, it's just a questionof finding what works for you, there are no 'absolute rules' in my opinion.

[PaphMadMan]

Originally Posted by bil

But surely, if you water first then the plant can't take up the fertiliser well?
It's like if I gave you a pint of water before I gave you a beer, you'd be unlikely to drink much of the beer...

Apparently you don't know any real beer drinkers...

After watering and letting pots drain, you add a small enough volume of more concentrated fertilizer that all or most of it stays in the pot. The roots have all the time until the next watering to take it up.

[bil]

Originally Posted by PaphMadMan

Apparently you don't know any real beer drinkers...

After watering and letting pots drain, you add a small enough volume of more concentrated fertilizer that all or most of it stays in the pot. The roots have all the time until the next watering to take it up.

Naaah, two sniffs of the barmaid's apron and I'm done.

I don't like that strategy for a number of reasons. It would give me no control over what fertiliser was taken up, and I would just prefer that the whole pot was drenched with weak fertiliser, because that's the way it goes in the wild, and I like to keep as close to what they would get in nature.
Stuck in a greenhouse with limited temp control, they are bound to get a little bit outside their comfort zones at times, and too much of that will risk degrading health and or blooming. I know it's a small point, but where I can stay tightly to the script, I'm happiest.

Plus, with any number of orchids, it would make watering more complicated than I like, and at heart I'm lazy...

[Optimist]

I think I posted this once, but most of the fertilizer the orchid gets is suspended particles in rain clouds. The suspended particles are the first to come out because they are heavier. This syncs perfectly with how the velemun works, which is saturation only happens in the first few second of watering. All subsequent watering is to raise ambient humidity.

[Selmo]

never fertilize or spray with insecticide on a DRY plant! water normally first, then do your fert or spraying...that way the plant/media is already wet and will absorb the treatment....I don't think I have ever seen that in any instruction, but it is so important!


Remembering back to high school and college biology. I believe that this is the principal behind osmosis.

[jkofferdahl]

Originally Posted by Selmo

never fertilize or spray with insecticide on a DRY plant! water normally first, then do your fert or spraying...that way the plant/media is already wet and will absorb the treatment....I don't think I have ever seen that in any instruction, but it is so important!


Remembering back to high school and college biology. I believe that this is the principal behind osmosis.

To state this as an absolute is wrong, because it isn't. Different plants under different conditions will always create exceptions.

The accepted practice, as I was taught, is to water first, and then give the roots about 30 minutes to an hour to absorb some of the water, and only then follow up with fertilizer; the idea being that the water already on the roots softens the burning effect of fertilizer mixtures, and the time delay allowed the roots to absorb some water and thus be ready to take on the fertilizer. The reason given for doing this is that use of fertilizer on dry roots can cause root burn due to the chemicals in the fertilizer. However, this practice was begun way back in the days before the practice of fertilizing "weekly, weakly" became the norm. Obviously, with some fertilizers the strength as full mix is going to he harsh, and so it made sense to protect the roots. Modern fertilizers are a lot less harsh, and we're so ingrained to the "weekly, weakly" methodology that direct application of fertilizer mixtures are pretty unlikely to cause problems to the roots. The process of watering first and then applying fertilizer also essentially doubles the necessary watering time. My hope is that Ray may chime on on this, since he knows fertilizers better than most of us know ourselves.

I still prefer to dampen the roots prior to fertilization because I'm old, fixed in my ways, too lazy to change, and also old. However, when I spray my mounted orchids I use a spray that is diluted fertilizer (about 15-20% of the label recommendation) and have never worried about first wetting them. My mounted orchids all have really heavy, healthy roots.

[PaphMadMan]

I think the best point here is that any simplistic absolute is bound to be absolutely wrong at some point, as is almost every more moderate or reasoned approach as well. Yet, many of our favorite orchids usually survive all but the most egregious abuse or neglect. Or at least they die slow giving us some time to get it right. We learn quickly what kills fast, like heavy overwatering or a ignoring a herd of mealy bugs. Unless you throw a handful of 20-20-20 dry fertilizer in each pot, fertilizer or lack of it is not on that list. If you repot in organic media regularly most orchids will survive with no added fertilizer at all.

[u bada]

threads like these are like throwing a piece of meat at hyenas LOL

"I think the best point here is that any simplistic absolute is bound to be absolutely wrong at some point, as is almost every more moderate or reasoned approach as well."

Agree with paphmadman here... it's really too hard to make brash generalizations, it really depends on the species and your conditions and what a grower is willing to to do (measuring ferts and coming up with a regular program i just don't have time for).

but really it's worth noting orchids can adapt.

Here are some personal notable exceptional experiences:

-Lost an encyclia to crow rot even though it hadn't been watered for a couple weeks (in protected spot outdoors in winter)

-I've watered pretty much everything at some point in morning, afternoon, evening year around and quite frankly see only minimal varying differences. And if they die it's not from when I watered and rather some other issue- not enough light, temp extremes, not enough water, not enough humidity. (by insight from growers discussing matters as Roberta and optimist address, as well as notable commercial growers I've talked to, i'll generally water in evening in summer, and morning when cooler in fall/winter). I do let most plants dry out or almost dry out between waterings.

-I'll use MSU fert (spring thru fall), via Ray, with every watering starting last year and have gotten improved growth/health, potted and mounted. (mounts are soaked completely leaves and all in bucket by laziness). Worth noting bucket water is from dirty aquarium water changes.

[Dollythehun]

"Worth noting bucket water is from dirty aquarium water changes."

What!!! You don't sterilize that bucket first!!!???😨😷😆