Trouble with Masdies

[FourN6]

Hello,

Like so many others, I am having trouble with my masdevallias. I have two: Masd. Angel Tears and Masd. Maui Gold both purchased at the same time, from the same vendor. At time of purchase, both plants were beautiful and overflowing their pots. I repotted both into separate glass bowls RJSquirrel style (net pot with spag. moss inside a glass bowl filled with leca, moss and water).

One Masdie is doing okay...not great...just okay. Its not really doing much of anything. I lose a leaf on occasion but more are popping up (slowly). No blooms. The little glass bowl seems to be working as designed.

The other Masdie is not happy. It loses multiple leaves a day and not much new growth is happening. I know it's root system isn't perfect but when I repotted into the glass bowls I was hoping there were enough good roots to outweigh the bad. When the significant leaf drop started happening, I removed the plant from the glass bowl and stuck it in a small plastic pot with spag. moss. I thought maybe the smaller pot might help but I think I was wrong.

I grow my Masdies where I grow my phals, in an indoor greenhouse with 50-70% humidity depending on time of day, constant fan and temps ranging from 60-70F. Light is from one of Ray's LEDs. My phals are happy (I think).

Is my masdie a lost cause?

[Salixx]

Which one is doing worse than the other? I ask because of parentage (and their accompanying climate preferences). Dropping multiple leaves a day isn't a good sign, but if it still has a significant amount, you might have a chance.

I'm not terribly familiar with the RJSquirrel style of potting masdies, though I did glance at it quickly and have an idea of it.

Are you certain about these temps and humidity ranges? If you can get the humidity higher and more stable (70-80%), I think you might see some improvement. I also grow in those mini greenhouses. If you can get a large tray for the bottom and fill it with aquarium gravel or something similar and fill to just below the top of the gravel with water, it should get your humidity up and more consistent. I also grow in those mini greenhouses and it works wonders, especially when you have a fan running. I do, however, grow almost all my masdies within those greenhouses mounted. I think they do the best that way, but everybody has their own style. I mist all of them nearly every morning.

As a side, without knowing which masdie is doing poor, I unfortunately suspect that your phals doing well might be the real key. Most Masdevallia and Phalaenopsis do not really make good bench partners. Phals like it warm, Masdies typically like it cooler.

According to BlueNanta, both hybrids have veitchiana in them, which is a cool grower. One, Maui Gold, also has warm growers in its lineage that would hopefully make it much more tolerant of warm. Angel Tears, also has some warm genes, but mostly cool and intermediate.

Edited to add:
I keep my cool growers in the same temperature range as you. However, I used either semi/hydro in a clay pot or kool-logs for evaporative cooling purposes. The cool room gets down to ~60F, give or take a few degrees, every night, but the Masdevallia pots and Kool-Logs are a few degrees cooler beyond that. You might also look into the zeer potting method. I'm not all that familiar with that either, but I've heard it works well.

[wintergirl]

I find many of my Masdies grow the best in clay pots with hydroton clay pellets. Then I place each pot in a plastic bowl. I run rain water though one day then the next day I empty the plastic bowl of the left over rain water. Then I spritz the top pellets everyday for the next couple days followed by another run through of water. They like to be moist but not drowning. The clay allows plant roots to breathe (and cool), not sure you get that with the glass bowl. Also at least once a day when I am wetting the clay pellets I also spritz the entire plant. I keep them all in the same area to keep the humidity up. I also have some on Kool-logs. I do have a couple in moss but they are in clay pots as well.

[u bada]

I tend to chime in on masdie questions as I have grown various pleurothallis... but masdevallia generally require cooler temps than I can provide now and have been otherwise tricky so only grow a limited amount at this point.

That said, and this is covered in other posts here on masdies, and along the lines of what wintergirl said, there seems to be better experience growing them in media that allows for more air flow. I see more masdevallia growers growing them in bark. A little more air in the media, a little more room for the roots. I myself have better success with them mounted in my orchid tanks.

Masdevallia have fleshier roots so tend to not like media that stays too sopping wet, so they tend to do well with fresh sphag then go south as media deteriorates. Although they don't want media to dry out completely... in fact, I just had to repot a masdie that hasn't been developing a good root system because i realized i hadn't repotted it for a while and the roots weren't interested at all in the old medium which was a sphag and tree fern mixed to keep it more open.

I have a feeling that the bowl with the leca and water limiting the air flow around the roots that are planted in sphag is a combo that isn't great for them. I suggest in the long term planting in a small bark mix with perlite. Orchiata lasts a longer time than fir bark, so i've moved quite a few plants to that especially if they're watered often.

Others have good success with sphag mixed with bark, or other things like tree fern. If you stick to sphag I'd recommend letting them dry somewhat between waterings and repot with fresh sphag every year.

If humidity is kept 50-70% that should actually be sufficient for those two hybrids- both have copper angel in it (a tried and true strong growing and floriferous masdie) and crossed with a warmth tolerant species and are adaptable. If there's a way to maintain it at 70, that should be perfectly fine. well known growers here in CA grow many of them outside near the coast where even by coast humidity can vary from as low as 40 at times.

Phals do need to be kept warmer, and these need to be kept cooler specifically in summer, although your year round temps seem fine for both groups. Cooler nights may trigger them to flower better, however.

But specifics for the ailing one, i'd check to see if there's any smell of rot in the root zone, if so then I'd depot, remove all the bad roots, let dry, maybe treat wth physan (disenfectant) diluted, then set in a clear bag with some moist sphagnum moss and wait for roots to hopefully form. If no rot and the media is decently fresh, i'd just put the whole pot and plant in a clear bag and wait for new roots to form, keeping media on dry side. They can plummet really fast so don't hold your breath, just being hones. On other hand they can grow really fast so if it stops dropping leaves, there's a chance it'll come around pretty quickly.

[estación seca]

Over a year ago I bought a bare-root M. nicaraguae, a warmer-growing species. It came with the roots wrapped in slightly damp moss. I mounted it onto a piece of cedar. The vendor wrote it should dry out slightly between waterings. The plant did fine with temperatures in the upper 80s F / 30C for some time. Then it suddenly dropped all its leaves and died. The only two things I can think are that it couldn't take those temperatures for long, or I let it get too dry.

I have since read here that Masdies should not dry out at all. I am leaning towards thinking that is what killed my M. nicaraguae.

I recently bought a M. floribunda mounted on a piece of wood. It also has moss around the roots. It arrived in full flower, just barely moist - very close to dry. I have not let it dry out since it arrived, and it continues to look OK.

[u bada]

of course it depends on the species but certain clones of floribunda come from vera cruz so a bit of heat, dry, and drying out it "can" adapt to... at santa barbara orchid estate, they grow them in the intermediate house, some mounted with half the roots exposed... gets into upper 80's in there in the summer...

But i should clarify and say there's a difference between "some drying out" and "drying out completely"... masdies don't like "drying out completely"... and mounted a masdie can definitely dry out completely. But in a pot the drying out can take such a long time that we water by instinct sooner than by that point of drying out completely. Especially with sphagnum moss.

In the beginning I've grown masdies sopping wet and suffice to say, that just doesn't work. Without strong air flow anyway.

[FourN6]

Thank you all for the replies. My poorly plant is the Masd. Maui Gold. Most of the center leaves are gone, leaving just a thin ring of leaves around the outside edge of the plant. When I removed the plant from the glass bowl, I did soak in a Physan solution and trimmed dead roots. I see hints of new growth but I'm not sure its enough to bring the plant back. I guess only time will tell. For now, I have the plant in a 3" plastic pot with a layer of leca in the bottom to add weight and help with drainage. The roots are covered by some fresh spag. moss. I've thought about mounting, but I want a healthier plant first.

I would really like to become proficient at growing these guys...there are so many that I would like to have. I may look into creating a separate grow space for them. Would they do better in a terrarium?

[estación seca]

The first thing I look at is whether I can give it the temperatures it likes, year-round. I don't buy cool nor cool-intermediate orchids. Some people don't buy hot nor warm-hot orchids. If I find a plant I think can accept my temperatures, I look at its other requirements.

I'm pretty sure there are people here growing Masdies on the windowsill. Their conditions are right in terms of temperature, light and humidity. A terrarium helps only if you need to raise temperature and/or humidity.

[FourN6]

Hi everyone,

I'm back posting in this thread because I'm with my Masdies.

Except this time, I see new growth...that looks like leaves...growing DOWN in the pot... Not to be confused with new roots because I see some of those too but what I saw today is different. I swear, there are new leaves trying to grow IN the plastic pot. And not a net pot either, a solid walled 3" plastic pot. If they are leaves, will they survive?

Heather

[Salixx]

Do you have a picture?