Orchids & Nuvoh2O Water Softener System

[EdZap]

My plumber recommends this "new"" entire home water softener system that DOES NOT use SALT because I am installing a tank-less water heater.
It chelates mg+ & ca+ with a time released citric acid formula, " Citra Charge ". (BTW usually water softener systems only filter the house water, my plumber gonna figure out my old plumbing system).

"The nuvoH2O Manor system uses revolutionary technology to lower the PH level of water based on the basic scientific process of chelation in which the metal ions causing hard water, principally calcium and magnesium, are bound to the chelating agent in nuvoH2O's FDA-approved, proprietary formulation, which keeps the minerals soluble and unable to cause hard water problems. The resulting water is soft and healthy for all of your household uses, including drinking, bathing, washing, and lawn and plant watering."

Does anyone have any experience with this product regarding using on your Orchids? Concerns about the pH?

[Orchid Whisperer]

If possible, have the line going to any outdoor faucet ("hose Bibb") separate from your new softened water line. There should be no need to soften water going to outdoor plants and landscaping.

Do you have neighbors that have installed this system? Maybe you can get a sample of softened water from them and take to your local county extension office for basic water quality testing (pH and either total dissolved solids (TDS) or electrical conductivity (EC).

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------

BTW, found this after my post above: https://www.uswatersystems.com/blog/...-soften-water/. Look at before and after water test results.

Don't take just one guy's word for it, but you may want to research this "water softener" a bit more.

[jkofferdahl]

People who sell this stuff - water filters, reverse osmosis filters, etc. - are going to do everything possible to convince you that you can't live without their product. Some are even quite aggressive, tossing their products into just about any conversation possible. In most cases, however, it's simply not a necessity, and especially if you're growing purely for pleasure rather than to show and breed. Take a look at the report on water quality in your area (get it from the water utility) and determine if you really even have a need for this before you even start to price out the system you may install. Do lots and lots of research before spending the first dime.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

Do lots and lots of research before spending the first dime.

And don't put the effluent on your orchids... The carbonate in hard water is pretty harmless. The "proprietary magic mix", if it makes them more soluble, is likely to do harm not good. Will certainly not reduce the TDS and may raise it ("whole house filters" don't reduce TDS either) If the citrate is bound to anything (how do they make a very soluble solid "time release"?) it's going into the system too. They haven't repealed the laws of chemistry! Reverse osmosis or deionization reduce the TDS, and that benefits many orchids (but then you have to make sure that you put some of the calcium and magnesium back in, in the fertilizer mixture). But this sounds like snake oil. Look very hard at the problem you're trying to solve before getting sold on a "solution".

[estación seca]

The company's own Web site does not say it uses citric acid. Their Web site says it uses a citrus-based product, which they don't identify further.

I can't imagine the amount of any chelation chemical (that actually works) needed to treat an entire household's water for 6 months would fit into a cartridge of the size shown on the company's Web site. If it were citric acid, I would expect all of it to dissolve out of the cartridge within the first 25 gallons through the cartridge. Citric acid is extremely soluble in water.

Citric acid does not truly chelate magnesium nor calcium. Most people refer to a chelator as a chemical that uses ionic bonding to sequester an ion and remove it from a water solution. Calcium and magnesium in citric acid solutions are freely soluble in water, so most people would not consider citric acid to be a chelator.

Citric acid might make the water more acid, which will make calcium and magnesium more soluble in water. They would still be there. It would probably be good for your orchids if the pH were proper. But as I mentioned above, the Web site doesn't say they use citric acid.

The water analysis reported on the Web site OrchidWhisperer referenced shows an interesting before-and-after analysis of water.

[LexyBoy]

The structure shown on the website is citric acid, and it certainly makes sense as a well known chelator for Mg and Ca, and is non-toxic and cheap as chips.

Devising a slow release mechanism would not be an issue. The cartridges seem fairly plausible to me - at 200 ppm Ca hardness, each cubic metre would require a minimum of approx 1 kg citric acid to treat, and a 6" X 24" cartridge could hold 18 kg (less whatever the dispensing mechanism takes up).

The website is full of incorrect science though (chelation is nothing to do with acidity, and changing the pH from 7.9 to 7.4 reduces hydrogen ion concentration 5-fold, not 50), as well as bad grammar and random capitalisation so I would certainly not be buying, even if I were in the market for a water softener! Good old cloud tears for me.

As to whether it would be bad for plants, I don't really know enough botany. My understanding is that excess Ca interferes with uptake of other nutrients (especially Fe) in plants that aren't adapted to it. That would lead me to suspect that making the Ca more soluble would not help, but on the other hand it would be washed out rather than building up as water evaporates. I believe that pH is mainly important in determining mineral availability in soils, rather than directly affecting the plants, so perhaps not so important in a soilless situation as with epiphytes.

[Ray]

Currently, there are only four practical ways to "soften" water (removal of calcium-, magnesium-, and iron carbonates) - distillation, reverse osmosis, deionization, and chemical substitution. Your classic NaCl softener is the last, but I'd avoid that if you wish to use it on your plants.

I sell RO systems, and despite jkoff's insulting generalization, there are two things to keep in mind: 1) all orchids can and do benefit from the use of water that is very low in dissolved solids content, and that is a factor of evolution, independent of your grower status. 2) that does not mean that everyone must, or even should purify their water before use on orchids.

One should know their actual water chemistry and the sensitivity of their plants before making any such decisions.

[sam1147]

Ray, this water conditioner belongs to which category ? :HardLess NG - The world Tks.

[Ray]

Based upon their FAQs, I'd say "none of the above", as it does not remove any of the dissolved solids.

It claims to chemically change them so there are none of the effects of hard water, but I have know idea what that is supposed to mean. I wouldn't invest in that, any more than in the thread subject system.

[sam1147]

Tks.