Greenhouse Recuirements for Orchids - Page 2 - Orchid Board

jkofferdahl · #11 12-22-2016, 07:39 PM

You may find that one greenhouse simply won't be suitable for all of your plants. You'll not have a lot of success if you try to mix cool-preferring orchids in the same house as warmth-lovers. Further, light requirements vary so much among genera, just as do temperature needs. With a large enough greenhouse you can zone it out for different types and requirements, but with the size you are considering it's going to be pretty difficult to do. Chances are that when you really consider everything, this project will cost more $$$ than you are expecting or planning to spend.

Some things you may want to consider: removable shade; heat; evaporative cooling; plumbing; ventilation; humidification; dehumidification; backup systems, especially to heat and cooling; weatherproofing and insulation; flooring type (which can differ greatly in price); ongoing maintenance costs (which could be considerable). I'm sure I've missed some important items, as I'm certain that there are more. I've been planning my own greenhouse for about 40 years now but still haven't come up with the money for it.

AnonYMouse · #12 12-22-2016, 07:51 PM

I grow indoors but I'm remembering my Dad's greenhouse and it's arrangements. It's been a long time, so take this with a grain of salt.

"Most kinds" is vague at best. You probably have warm growers with Phals being the low end of light requirements (Dendrobiums run the gamut). People who grow a wide selection often have multiple "houses". If the structure is large enough, you might be able to create zones:

Very high light Vandas would be placed high where it would also be hot. Upper and perimeter shelf for Catts. Inner for Oncs, lower for Phals. You will need a vent (my Dad had open eave space between the walls and roof) to exchange heat, a fan would be a good idea. If your climate gets regular frost-freeze, it will have to be adjustable (windows, flaps, doors, etc). If your climate gets real winter, you will need to heat it.

You probably won't be able to grow most Pleuro alliance in the same structure without some cooling appliances. If your structure is out in the open, you will need shade cloth.

You could have a lean-to against a preexisting wall or a freestanding structure with large trees overhead.

It would really benefit you to visit an orchid greenhouse/shadehouse. Some vendors are open to the public. A conservatory would also give you ideas on requirements.

bil · #13 12-22-2016, 07:54 PM

Well, if it helps, this is what I do.

I have a greenhouse, some 6 metres by 5. I have Cattleyas, den phals, assorted dens, and phals. Paphs, phrags and some oncidiums, zygos, Stans, a vanda, Catasetums, cynoches etc, miltonias, cammbrias, oncidiums, you get the pic Oh and some air plants too.

There is simply no way that all those can sit in a greenhouse 12 months of the year.

The Catts, the den phals and the Catasetums etc, sure, but only with 50% shading.

As soon as the temps outside are ok, ALL the rest go out to varying degrees of shade.

So, my suggestion would be, that you need to be able to house EVERYTHING in there over winter, and heat it, but have shade areas outside for the rest. Cooling is very expensive and difficult and best avoided.

Roberta · #14 12-22-2016, 08:03 PM

If your summer RH is not too high, you can get quite effective cooling from a fogger. I use a Jaybird Aquafog unit in a 8' x 12' greenhouse in southern California, and even on the hottest days (around 100 deg F) the GH stays between 85 and 90. But in general, my RH is fairly low - 60% during the day is really muggy, most of the time lower. If you are in a place that has very humid summers, it may not be as effective. You need a rather robust heater... several suppliers of greenhouse heaters have calculators to help you decide what you need (google "greenhouse heater calculator". ) I have used this one ACF Greenhouse Heaters & Heater Size + Cost to Heat Calculators
Unless you live in a place with VERY cheap electricity(and have 220 v) you are certainly looking at a gas (natural or propane) unit. (Don't even think of 110v heater... 1500 watts is just about the maximum that you can get, would not be adequate for you even with a very small GH)

charlesf6 · #15 12-22-2016, 08:05 PM

For Spring, Summer use only:

AnonYMouse · #16 12-22-2016, 08:08 PM

Charles,

Why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlesf6

For Spring, Summer use only:

Dollythehun · #17 12-22-2016, 09:33 PM

We have put up two greenhouses. The first was for my business, it was 50' x 30'. I could never have grown orchids in it, even though we partitioned it off in the winter. Like any construction, the costs seem to double quickly.

If you run an extra gas or electric line, in our area, you pay a hefty service charge, even if you don't use any energy.

Cooling was always a problem and we did use a misting system. If your water is hard, that creates a problem.

We sold that and put up a hobby house 16' x 30'.( The older you get the harder this work is). We now heat with propane which has to be watched like a hawk. The cost to keep it at 60 degrees would be quite prohibitive. In NW Indiana, zone 6, we go through about 80 lbs of propane a week (average). That is $66.00. We still pay $20.00 a month service charge in electric. This is running at 40 degrees with a backup Heater ( see clivia post).

All that to say, this is far more expensive than you might think...depending, of course, on where you live. You could run a lot of T5s for that.

katrina · #18 12-23-2016, 07:32 AM

Like jkofferdahl, I've been "planning" a greenhouse for years...and it might happen one day but I'm not quite there yet.

The one thing I've learned over the years...and this comes mainly from learning from my friends who already have g/h's and many of whom have had them for years...is that they almost always cost more than you initially think you'll spend. The other aspect...and one that some people never consider...is the actual cost to heat and cool them. And/or the cost to maintain the equipment in the g/h.

This is a great link to give you some jumping off points to help you refine what you're looking to do. 2016 Greenhouse Construction Costs | Average Price to Build a Hot House

That link gives you some decent basics for the build part but you will also want to research the cost of heating and cooling the structure and that can vary by region/location. Excavation of the site, permits to do the work, plumbing, water, heating, cooling, temperature alarms, fans, etc, etc, etc...the list can go on and but it starts with you deciding exactly how big and/or techy you want to go.

It's not that people don't want to give you specifics but there are so many factors to be considered and most will vary based on where you live and the land/site you intend to put the g/h. The one thing I've learned from my friends over the years...it's not only usually more expensive than planned...but it's also usually a lot more complicated than one might imagine. Research, research, research, and then research some more before jumping in. Talk to companies that build greenhouses.. Maybe talk to an orchid society to see others in your area have g/h for their orchids. If you're planning on building it all by yourself...definitely find some people in your area who have also done it. The personal experience they can offer will be invaluable for your planning.

bil · #19 12-23-2016, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dollythehun

1. Like any construction, the costs seem to double quickly.

If you run an extra gas or electric line, in our area, you pay a hefty service charge, even if you don't use any energy.

Cooling was always a problem and we did use a misting system. If your water is hard, that creates a problem.

( The older you get the harder this work is).

We now heat with propane which has to be watched like a hawk. The cost to keep it at 60 degrees would be quite prohibitive.

There are some real words of wisdom there.

1. everything takes longer and costs more

2. Mercifully the regulations aren't too steep here so we were able to run a dedicated cable with no problems or extra costs.

3. Cooling can be a real pain, and if you use a fogger or mister, if you aren't careful you will lose all your plants to rot.
4. Hard water IS a problem. I use RO water both for watering and misting.

5. One of the things I resent about growing old is the loss of strength and ability.

6. Heating is a problem, but those costs can be reduced using good insulation. If you were thinking of using a poly tunnel design, I would say, forget it. We really aren't too cold here in the winter, but already we are running the heaters all night when the outside temp is getting down to zero.
I used the double skin plastic panels with a 1 cm air gap. Had I had the money, I would hale used two sheets with a cm gap between them, but that would have doubled the panelling costs. Also I would have double roofed it to reduce heat loss.

Mine cost me about 5,000 pounds I think.

Dollythehun · #20 12-23-2016, 08:01 AM

Thanks, Bil. We are double skinned with 5 yr double wall uv poly. I wanted poly carbonate but there was no way to bring the truck in. Also, we use well water. No city water here.

To the OP, you could put in a walk in greenhouse, or large GH window for a fraction of the cost of a free standing structure.