NOID Phal Repotting Trauma

[sapphirerose]

I packed in some more bark to deal with the tipping and the orchid seems to be doing OK.

Thanks for all the advice. I've been sick, so I haven't been reading all the new comments until today.

[estación seca]

Get well soon!

[etcherkate]

Originally Posted by bil

What I mean is this. When my bark potted phals are watered I just spray them till the water runs out the bottom. I can stand there for twice as long and it doesn't matter. I can water every day if I chose, and it wouldn't matter.
If they were potted in moss, I would have be very careful to ensure that it dries out well. llus, the longer it sstays wet, the more likely the roots are to suuffocate, so, watering has to be continually adjusted to make allowance for humidity, wind movement etc.

Now ask your self this. Which method, moss packed into a small pot or coarse bark in a larger pot would you advise for a newcomer to orchids?

This makes sense! I'll continue to stick with a mix that's mostly coarse bark when I repot. Thanks for your feedback!

[jkofferdahl]

Originally Posted by bil

1. Maintain good air flow to the roots at all times.
2. Only water in the morning.
3. Keep the water near the orchids so that it is not too
cold.
4. Don't let the pot sit in water.
5. Don't let them get too hot.
6. Don't let them get too cold.

Now, the rule about not getting crowns wet is very true for other orchids. Let water sit in the crown or leaf axils, and they will succumb to fungus very easily.

Phals don't seem in my experience to give a damn.

Bil, I abbreviated your post to save space. As usual, our experience/methods are fairly similar, and our reasoning just about identical. Of course there's a but, though, or I wouldn't be posting. I've been potting my smaller Phals into plastic basket pots this year, again as an experiment like yours, some in sphagnum, some in a mix of sphagnum and 1/2 in to 3/4 inch bark, and some just in the same bark. Regardless of the media, the key has been watering frequency; obviously the shpag needs less watering. In all three media versions, though, each plant has produced an abundance of new roots. These pots are, I think, a reasonable approximation to actually mounting them. I suppose, though, that both your potting method and my own follow your rule #1. My larger Phals are in either terra cotta or plastic I've cut extra holes into.

My experience differs a bit more with your rule #2. I've never had a problem with afternoon, even late afternoon, waterings, though here I avoid two things. First, I now don't want to let the plants get wet, especially the crowns. Though I agree that water isn't the culprit, water AND cold with dark have a certain attraction to fungal growths, whether on the leaves or in the crown. Second, and it springs from the first, I use water which is slightly above air temperature.

[bil]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

Bil, I abbreviated your post to save space. As usual, our experience/methods are fairly similar, and our reasoning just about identical. Of course there's a but, though, or I wouldn't be posting. I've been potting my smaller Phals into plastic basket pots this year, again as an experiment like yours, some in sphagnum, some in a mix of sphagnum and 1/2 in to 3/4 inch bark, and some just in the same bark. Regardless of the media, the key has been watering frequency; obviously the shpag needs less watering. In all three media versions, though, each plant has produced an abundance of new roots. These pots are, I think, a reasonable approximation to actually mounting them. I suppose, though, that both your potting method and my own follow your rule #1. My larger Phals are in either terra cotta or plastic I've cut extra holes into.

My experience differs a bit more with your rule #2. I've never had a problem with afternoon, even late afternoon, waterings, though here I avoid two things. First, I now don't want to let the plants get wet, especially the crowns. Though I agree that water isn't the culprit, water AND cold with dark have a certain attraction to fungal growths, whether on the leaves or in the crown. Second, and it springs from the first, I use water which is slightly above air temperature.

I water in the am for a few reasons. It gives the greenhouse the greatest chance to dry out over the day.

Thinking about fungal problems, fungi really, really don't like drying out, and so many of the fugal problems I see are 'wet' fungus, if you know what I mean.
To me, a late watering has less chance to dry out, unless you are 'pathlogically careful'.
As for the phals specifically, I think that fungus really isn't a problem. What is the problem seems to most likely be damage done to the crown with cold or heat that the fungus can then take advantage of. A bit like us. We are covered with bacteria that will kill us (or try to ) in a heartbeat if they can only get a foothold in a wound.

I think that sphag is great on a mount, and mounting phals on a branch with a decent moss pad would work well. The idea is that it can dry out superfast, unlike the confines of a pot, where moisture can be retained for too long.

[jkofferdahl]

Originally Posted by bil

I water in the am for a few reasons. It gives the greenhouse the greatest chance to dry out over the day.

Thinking about fungal problems, fungi really, really don't like drying out, and so many of the fugal problems I see are 'wet' fungus, if you know what I mean.
To me, a late watering has less chance to dry out, unless you are 'pathlogically careful'.
As for the phals specifically, I think that fungus really isn't a problem. What is the problem seems to most likely be damage done to the crown with cold or heat that the fungus can then take advantage of. A bit like us. We are covered with bacteria that will kill us (or try to ) in a heartbeat if they can only get a foothold in a wound.

I think that sphag is great on a mount, and mounting phals on a branch with a decent moss pad would work well. The idea is that it can dry out superfast, unlike the confines of a pot, where moisture can be retained for too long.

Of course, that brings us to another difference. You grow in a greenhouse while I grow indoors on windowsills and under lights. During the day I try to keep things from drying out. In theory, then, while I have to do a bit more to maintain humidity I am also in a bit more control over temperature. In theory. At any rate, like you I've been fortunate to avoid crown rot.

I grow all of my miniature Phals either on sticks or wood slabs. When I mount them, I use a clump of sphagnum around the plant which provides them with extra moisture as they establish themselves. It doesn't seem to take long, though, before the roots are everywhere. The only larger Phals I have mounted - larger being a relative term here - are some of my cornu-cervi. For whatever reason, I first learned to mount them to osmunda rafts and so still do.

I love mounted orchids, and the more I look at Andy's methods the more I've come to prefer sticks as mounts. Both when I'm out and about and also when I'm in my yard I look for good sticks to use. Since I'm in Georgia, my two favorites are Oak and Magnolia. I leave the bark on, but always boil a stick before use.

[bil]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

Of course, that brings us to another difference. You grow in a greenhouse while I grow indoors on windowsills and under lights. During the day I try to keep things from drying out. In theory, then, while I have to do a bit more to maintain humidity I am also in a bit more control over temperature. In theory. At any rate, like you I've been fortunate to avoid crown rot.

I grow all of my miniature Phals either on sticks or wood slabs. When I mount them, I use a clump of sphagnum around the plant which provides them with extra moisture as they establish themselves. It doesn't seem to take long, though, before the roots are everywhere. The only larger Phals I have mounted - larger being a relative term here - are some of my cornu-cervi. For whatever reason, I first learned to mount them to osmunda rafts and so still do.

I love mounted orchids, and the more I look at Andy's methods the more I've come to prefer sticks as mounts. Both when I'm out and about and also when I'm in my yard I look for good sticks to use. Since I'm in Georgia, my two favorites are Oak and Magnolia. I leave the bark on, but always boil a stick before use.

I am finding that mounted is the way to go. So why do you boil the stick?

[jkofferdahl]

Originally Posted by bil

I am finding that mounted is the way to go. So why do you boil the stick?

I boil it to make sure that anything in or on it is killed. Once it's ready to use I put either a glob of sphagnum or a chunk of fine osmunda fiber at the plant's base to help establish it, and wrap the (very soaked to make them pliable) roots around the stick and secure it with fine fishing line. I mount the plant at pretty much 90 degrees to the stick, meaning that when the stick hangs the plant itself is 90 degrees from horizontal. Oh, and before I start the mounting process I drill a hole through the "top" of the stick so I can put a hanging wire through it. For a smaller Phal like a cornu-cervi I like the stick to be at least 2" in diameter, and for a really big Phal I use at least a 3" diameter stick. I like the sticks to have a lot of texture to give the roots extra purchase. I've not mounted a miniature Phal, but both my braceanas and thailandicas came from Andy's on 1/2" sticks. They last a lot, lot longer than osmunda rafts and are more natural for the plant than a wooden plank.

[bil]

Originally Posted by jkofferdahl

I boil it to make sure that anything in or on it is killed. Once it's ready to use I put either a glob of sphagnum or a chunk of fine osmunda fiber at the plant's base to help establish it, and wrap the (very soaked to make them pliable) roots around the stick and secure it with fine fishing line. I mount the plant at pretty much 90 degrees to the stick, meaning that when the stick hangs the plant itself is 90 degrees from horizontal. Oh, and before I start the mounting process I drill a hole through the "top" of the stick so I can put a hanging wire through it. For a smaller Phal like a cornu-cervi I like the stick to be at least 2" in diameter, and for a really big Phal I use at least a 3" diameter stick. I like the sticks to have a lot of texture to give the roots extra purchase. I've not mounted a miniature Phal, but both my braceanas and thailandicas came from Andy's on 1/2" sticks. They last a lot, lot longer than osmunda rafts and are more natural for the plant than a wooden plank.

Have you tried braided fishing line instead of monofilament? It needs special scissors or a knife to cut it, and you must be very careful not to cut your fingers when pulling it tight There are several advantages tho. It is incredibly strong. A thread that will take 6 kilos of load will pass thru the eye of a needle, and it's colour means that it is hard to spot. Also, normal knots slip. That might sound like a problem, but I tie a single granny, with another single. You couldn't tie them firm if your life depended on it, but if you pull it tight, it will slip up and go snug. Then I tie a single granny where the line goes round three times, and that will lock it solid.

Also, if you are using a branch mount, this is a very useful way to attach the wire.
You bend the loop shown, and then pass the long end thru the tight fitting hole. When the short end touches the branch, make a mark with it and then drill a second hole parallel to the first. I then squeeze the short end in with grips, using a piece of cloth to protect the bark, and bend the long end upwards. That is then shaped round a bar in the vice to form a hook.

Hope that is of use.

[Orchid Whisperer]

I prefer to pot all of my Phals in either coarse bark (cheap Better Gro stuff, $5 per bag from Lowes), or in a mix of cheap bark and charcoal of the same size. I have Phals that live happily in that stuff for 3 or more years.

I've experimented with plastic pots, net pots, etc., my Phals in unglazed terracotta pots always grow better. I use the smallest pot into which the roots will fit, and don't worry if a few roots don't fit in the pot.

Since you recently re-potted, I would not change much right now, just focus on not over-watering in the mix you have. Pick out all the sphagnum you can without removing the plant form the pot. Maybe re-pot when you have active growth next growing season.