Laelia gouldiana extinct?

[gdupont]

Is Laelia gouldiana really extinct in the wild? I read that it was from one source, but haven't found it elsewhere

[Subrosa]

Extinct is extinct. If there are none left in the wild, but they continue to exist they're considered extirpated.

[estación seca]

I did some digging, because I bought this from Andy's last December and mounted it on the jacaranda tree in front of my mom's house in southern Orange County, California.

From Status Survey and Conservation Action Plan: Orchids, Hagsater and Dumont, editors, IUCN. This can be found on Google Books.

https://books.google.com/books?id=9B...xtinct&f=false

"As far a we know, the only orchid that appears to be Extinct in the Wild in Mexico is Laelia gouldiana Rchb. f. This orchid has never been known in a wild state; all the specimens have been found growing on private property in the state of Hidalgo. The species is appreciated by the local people, who occasionally sell inflorescences and small pieces of plants to supplement their income."

There are quite a number of beautiful and useful plants in horticulture from México which have never been found in the wild. These were cultivated by Mexicans long before European contact. It is not certain whether they were wild species collected to extinction, or cultivars selected by ancient horticulturists. Other examples of these plants are most of the economically useful Agave species, and the bulb flower tuberose, which has previously been called Polianthes tuberosa.

After DNA work, the entire genus of Polianthes, together with sister genus Manfreda, have been transferred to Agave by taxonomists. The correct name for the tuberose is now Agave polianthes.

I might add... Almost every state in México has vast amounts of terrain unexplored by botanists. Who know whether Laelia gouldiana might not be discovered eventually in the wild? The Mexican Laelias are from mountainous country, which is usually very difficult to explore.

[gdupont]

Originally Posted by Subrosa

Extinct is extinct. If there are none left in the wild, but they continue to exist they're considered extirpated.

I understand what extinct is... I was questioning the reliability of the source, and seeing what others knew about the subject.


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[gdupont]

Originally Posted by estación seca

I did some digging, because I bought this from Andy's last December and mounted it on the jacaranda tree in front of my mom's house in southern Orange County, California.



From Status Survey and Conservation Action Plan: Orchids, Hagsater and Dumont, editors, IUCN. This can be found on Google Books.



https://books.google.com/books?id=9B...xtinct&f=false



"As far a we know, the only orchid that appears to be Extinct in the Wild in Mexico is Laelia gouldiana Rchb. f. This orchid has never been known in a wild state; all the specimens have been found growing on private property in the state of Hidalgo. The species is appreciated by the local people, who occasionally sell inflorescences and small pieces of plants to supplement their income."



There are quite a number of beautiful and useful plants in horticulture from México which have never been found in the wild. These were cultivated by Mexicans long before European contact. It is not certain whether they were wild species collected to extinction, or cultivars selected by ancient horticulturists. Other examples of these plants are most of the economically useful Agave species, and the bulb flower tuberose, which has previously been called Polianthes tuberosa.



After DNA work, the entire genus of Polianthes, together with sister genus Manfreda, have been transferred to Agave by taxonomists. The correct name for the tuberose is now Agave polianthes.



I might add... Almost every state in México has vast amounts of terrain unexplored by botanists. Who know whether Laelia gouldiana might not be discovered eventually in the wild? The Mexican Laelias are from mountainous country, which is usually very difficult to explore.

Thanks so much for this thorough response! I really appreciate it.


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[estación seca]

I bought the clone Andy sells called 'Greta Garbo', which was in Raymond Burr's collection. It's pretty high up on a tree because it wants to be left alone.

[Subrosa]

Anyone who uses the expression "extinct in the wild" really doesn't understand what "extinct" is. An organism can no more be extinct somewhere and not extinct elsewhere than a woman can be pregnant at home but not elsewhere.

[Fairorchids]

@ Estacion Seca: I bought the same clone, but from SBOE.

@ Subrosa: Sorry, but I beg to differ.

'Extinct' is very clear, it is gone (such as the dodo bird and probably the Tazmanian Tiger).

'Extinct in the wild' is equally clear and valid. it no longer exists in the original habitat, but plants may well exist in private collections or botanical gardens.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Extirpated means locally extinct in a place where a species once existed, said of a species that still exists elsewhere. The orchid Bletia patula was thought to be extirpated from Florida, but is still common in Puerto Rico and other places in the Caribbean. If L. gouldiana originally occurred only in Mexico as a wild plant, then it may be extinct in the wild. If it still occurs somewhere in the wild (for arguments sake, let's say Guatemala; no idea if it ever lived there), then it would be extirpated from Mexico. If none exist in the wild anywhere, but the exist only in cultivation, extinct in the wild is correct (example: Franklinia alatamaha).

[gdupont]

Originally Posted by Subrosa

Anyone who uses the expression "extinct in the wild" really doesn't understand what "extinct" is. An organism can no more be extinct somewhere and not extinct elsewhere than a woman can be pregnant at home but not elsewhere.

Not sure what you feel you have to prove, and also not sure why you're taking it out on me. If you have a problem with the term "extinct in the wild," I would suggest you take it up with the IUCN.

2001 IUCN Red List Categories and Criteria version 3.1



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