Help! Den. Nobile how to give proper winter rest and Break the Ice!

[MissRuby]

Hello all! I have a dendrobium nobile type orchid that seems a bit confused.... This is my first one, and I've had it about 2 years. Growing well, but unsuccessful in producing blooms. What I understand so far is that usually nobile type orchids receive a winter rest after the new growths have matured and growth has stopped (no water, fertilizer, and cooler temps), and that this rest will result in the formation of buds and blooms. Start gradually watering and fertilizing again once buds appear, and all should be well. Well... My little guy seems to have missed the message the new cane stopped growing in spring, it did nothing all summer, and just in time for a proper winter rest come this fall.... It started growing a new cane! I'm wondering if there is a way to provide a temperature cool down artificially for this guy, as my climate doesn't seem to be matching up with his growth cycle (another new growth will be finishing up maturing soon, just in time for our weather to start warming up) or what someone might recommend in this situation? Any advice would be much appreciated!

On that note, I'm still fairly new to the Orchid Board and fairly new to orchids themselves, so wanted to just say Hi everyone! I've got phals down pat at this point, and am starting to branch out into different alliances, loving oncidiums and cattleyas right now, but pretty much obsessed with ALL orchids and can't get my hands on enough of them! I'm 24, living in Manitoba Canada, all my orchids are grown indoors on a windowsill or under lights, contemplating switching a few into semi-hydro. Looking to make a few orchid friends and learn, learn, learn as much as I can about this amazing hobby!

[Becky15349]

When I grew noble dends, I would stop watering around thanksgiving and resume when I saw new growth in the spring. If the canes start to look super wrinkly and dried out, you can give them a little water to puff them back up again. I would keep them on a windowsill close to the window so they would naturally feel the coldness set in when fall/winter arrived. Since you are in Canada you should have no issues with coldness - is there somewhere closer to a window that you can keep them?

---------- Post added at 04:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

Oh, something else I meant to say - welcome! As I was told years ago when I started with orchids, you are only as good as the number of orchids you have killed Experiment with different varieties and read as much as you can about the culture that each one likes, as they are all a little different. Have fun with it! And make sure you join your local orchid society!

[estación seca]

Welcome! Is there any way you can put it outside during the summer and fall? The relatively constant temperatures and lighting inside your house will keep it from blooming.

Or, consider three other groups of Dendrobium: the Latourias, the Dendrobium phalaenopsis hybrids and the Spathulatas. They like even conditions year-round. A good place to look at pictures of many of these is the Web site of H&R Nursery in Hawaii. Some of the best-known species in each group get very large, but there are plenty of small species and hybrids.

[MissRuby]

Hi, thank you both for the reply! I've had this den for a few years, and have kept it outside during the summer/fall when the weather was appropriate, and as cold as I dare leave it. During the winter months I do keep it in the window sill, I could try placing it closer to the glass to help drop the temp down a bit. I tried this summer, and last, to induce blooming by having it outside into the colder fall temps, but both times my poor den decided it would rather be dormant in July instead of growing, and growing in November instead of blooming! I'm sure if I can just get the poor thing sorted out with the seasons, I might be able to achieve blooms. Trial and error it definitely is! I'm not ready to give up on dens just yet speaking of other varieties, I love latourias! I have my eye on a roy tokunaga den that I just love! still need to do some more reading up before purchasing though.

[Roberta]

Another thought in getting your nobile-type Den (and for that matter, other things) - supplemental light to compensate for the short, dark days. These (and many others) experience a cool, dry BRIGHT winter (since cloud cover is much reduced when the rain clouds go away). It's the "bright" part that probably missing. An inexpensive fluorescent or LED light on a timer (I suggest 12 hours a day) in addition to whatever comes in the window might just help. The intensity is not the big concern (you don't want a lot of heat) but extending the duration of good light may help.

[ollypolly]

The relatively constant temperatures and lighting inside your house will keep it from blooming.

Another thought in getting your nobile-type Den (and for that matter, other things) - supplemental light to compensate for the short, dark days. These (and many others) experience a cool, dry BRIGHT winter (since cloud cover is much reduced when the rain clouds go away)

These two things. My winters are cool (not cold) with beautiful clear blue skies and my nobile put on a beautiful show in winter and only lost a few leaves. I changed my watering to once a week from every day and didn't bother to fertilise at all.

[NYCorchidman]

Good input has been given, and I'll add my two cents as these are among my favorite plants and I used to have a great success in blooming them when I was able to give them the proper winter conditions.
I had them in a unheated but protected balcony where the temperature was a bit warmer than outside. never freezing but quite cold.

Sorry, I'm not giving some helpful links to some older threads, but you can easily navigate the older ones under this topic where much useful information has been shared.

Let me put one thing out of the way first.
Many people mistake the winter rest as no water period. This is wrong!!!!
While dendrobiums in general can last for very long time without any watering, this is not the best way to treat them. This confusion comes from lack of the understanding of the weather conditions of their natural habitat and the misleading word "dry".
Dry almost always means "drier" or more precisely less rainfalls compared to the monsoon season where these plants get poured down with copious amount of rain water.
What happens during the winter dry season is that the rain fall is very much reduced but the air humidity is quit high and the plants still get soaked wet every morning in the dews. So they are never actually bone dry for months.

If you keep your nobile types in the near freezing conditions the entire winter, then no water will do nearly zero damage to the plant.

Now, the most important factor in bringing these plants into an abundant bloom is the temperature.
Different hybrids respond differently, but the general guideline given by the Yamamoto Dendrobium, a large producer and distributor of these plants, is that the plants be given minimum of 58F for at least one hour at night for about one month.
Now, the cooler you can keep them without freezing to death, the better the results will be.

Now also important are to stop fertilizing in the summer. Fertilizing late into the fall can hinder flowering.

Last, give high light to produce strong healthy plants year around. I grow mine in the direct sun via window glass year around. These plants can take a lot of light and actually thrive under such conditions.
Give them lots of water and grow them large in the spring and summer for better flower shows. Remember that the bigger and taller the plants are, the more possible flower nodes as each segment will produce inflorescence.

The dropping of leaves, this will only happen under two conditions. One, bone dry for too long, two, keeping the plant very cold.
I prefer not to have leaves on as they tend to get in the way of flowers. My conditions are not optimal any more, so not many leaves fall. I just strip them off in the winter. lol

The new growths will develop early if the winter temperature is warm enough.

[MissRuby]

Wow, thank you all for the replies! So much information!! I do have a set up with lights in my window in my new apartment, so I will make sure while the canes are maturing to give lots of light our summers are so hot here, I have to be so careful leaving it in the full sun anywhere near noon, I think the lights will help reach adequate light levels without scorching. I have heard that nobiles actually quite like water, but I'm learning to let the plant tell me how much it needs, instead of following a strict schedule. So far, I think I have that part down, I will gradually slow watering and stop fertilizing as growth slows. The temps will be the hard part for me; I was reading up on the Yamamoto dendrobium site, and I'm almost 100% sure it's the cold snap I'm missing. Once this growth matures, we may be experiencing warmer temperatures here, but still within the cold range to give it a drop; I will try this and see I have also heard of people keeping them in the fridge or a wine cooler for an hour or so each night during their "rest" period with good results. I'd prefer the good ol' outdoors, but I guess I could always attempt it if the seasons just don't mesh up? Who knows! This is by far the largest and healthiest looking cane I've ever had on this plant, so slowly but surely I'm starting to get the hang of it! Thank you again for all the help!

[NYCorchidman]

Yeah, the cold winter part is what many people are missing, especially the indoor growers.

I've also heard about people who stick these inside the frigde, but it actually is not very practical.
Here's why. Most of these varieties tend to get quite tall. So I wonder how the plants will fit unless you have a specially designed AND empty fridge.
Plus, if you have fruits in the fridge, they will emit ethylene gas which will abort the developing buds.

Yeah, good o'l outdoor chilling is the best or unheated sunroom or balcony like I once had.

Good luck!

[estación seca]

You don't have a separate refrigerator for storing seeds, rooting daffodils in pots in the winter, and chilling orchids?