Need help with sick phals - Orchid Board

Spirit_Scale · #1 10-29-2015, 06:52 PM

I'm a newbie who ended up with the standard very-sick-packed-in-moss phals.
I did my best to clean them both up (cut away the rotted bits, spritzed with peroxide, dusted with cinnamon) and put them in clear pots with ventilation holes in a bark/perlite/charcoal mix...but they're not doing so well.
The rot was very aggressive and the larger plant lost part of the bottom of it's stem (sorry if my terminology is off), which I had to cut and seal to stop the infection. .

I was beginning to see the 'veins' on the leaves and they were looking dehydrated with white/shriveled roots even though the medium was moist. So I ended up trying a modified 'sphag and bag' but put them in bark and not moss. In addition (which I now realize was a mistake) I dusted the bottoms of each with a rooting powder.
After which I ended up with fungus/fuzz over the roots and my medium. Leaves are still green and reasonably firm/not limp.

The house is about 20-24C and 40% humidity on it's own. The window faces I believe north/north-west and if it's any indication of light I have a Hoya spp. (most likely carnosa) that grows well in the summer in that same window. Now that it's winter it has slowed down and is not growing any new foliage however.

I'm trying to figure out what I should do. I know I probably need some supplemental lighting and the plants need to be cleaned up and repotted but don't want to keep trying this and that and stressing the plants.

campchi · #2 10-29-2015, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spirit_Scale

I'm a newbie who ended up with the standard very-sick-packed-in-moss phals.
I did my best to clean them both up (cut away the rotted bits, spritzed with peroxide, dusted with cinnamon) and put them in clear pots with ventilation holes in a bark/perlite/charcoal mix...but they're not doing so well.
The rot was very aggressive and the larger plant lost part of the bottom of it's stem (sorry if my terminology is off), which I had to cut and seal to stop the infection. .

I was beginning to see the 'veins' on the leaves and they were looking dehydrated with white/shriveled roots even though the medium was moist. So I ended up trying a modified 'sphag and bag' but put them in bark and not moss. In addition (which I now realize was a mistake) I dusted the bottoms of each with a rooting powder.
After which I ended up with fungus/fuzz over the roots and my medium. Leaves are still green and reasonably firm/not limp.

The house is about 20-24C and 40% humidity on it's own. The window faces I believe north/north-west and if it's any indication of light I have a Hoya spp. (most likely carnosa) that grows well in the summer in that same window. Now that it's winter it has slowed down and is not growing any new foliage however.

I'm trying to figure out what I should do. I know I probably need some supplemental lighting and the plants need to be cleaned up and repotted but don't want to keep trying this and that and stressing the plants.

A pic would help

Ray · #3 10-29-2015, 07:33 PM

Here's my take on the issue:

The roots are dead, having been suffocated by the dense, saturated moss. What you have done, so far, has done nothing to remedy that.

Unpot the plant, clean off the remaining roots, and place it in the bag again, and add sphagnum or even a wet paper towel BUT NOT IN CONTACT WITH THE PLANT.

That is intended to be a moisture source to keep the humidity at 100%, and nothing more. Without a viable root system, the plant has no way to take up water, but it can still lose it through its leaves.

Keep the plant warm and shady, and in that saturated-air environment, the water loss is slowed, giving the plant time to grow new roots before it desiccates to death. Once it has started growing new roots, pot it up.

Leafmite · #4 10-29-2015, 07:38 PM

I have been through the rootless orchid thing, most recently with an Angraecum sesquipedale. What I usually do is to fill a pot up partway with my potting medium (I always figure that, with these sorts of orchids that the bottom leaves are going to be lost) and then stake the orchid on top of the medium. As I have had problems in the past with moldy roots, I use basket pots and LECA to allow plenty of airflow (that helps to prevent mold). For the Angraecum sesquipedale, I purchased a liquid seaweed product to encourage root growth. I would recommend it.

You will find that there are many ways to revive a Phal. Hopefully, you will soon get more options.

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 PM ----------

Ray's method will work, too.

Spirit_Scale · #5 10-29-2015, 08:54 PM

The fuzz is gone now for some reason (they were super fuzzy this morning when I did my weekly check). As you can see...they're really not looking so great. First set of roots and then leaves is the smaller plant...next set of of roots and leaves is the larger plant.

turock · #6 10-29-2015, 09:24 PM

Ray knows what he is talking about. I've had a few orchids in similar conditions, and the ones that I've lost have been the ones I've tinkered with and fretted over the most. It is wise to put it in the "sphag bag" that Ray described and basically forget about it for a while.

I invariably get fungus on the roots of my bagged plants as well, but generally I don't worry about it unless it gets to be very thick. I find that the fungus is concerned with eating the dead material and isn't interested in consuming the live stuff. If it gets too thick, I spray hydrogen peroxide on it, then leave the plant alone again.

Warmth, humidity, and patience are your plants' best friends. Your second best friend is Kelp Max, as I'm quickly discovering! Cinnamon powder in the root area of the plant is a bad idea. It dries the roots out and for that reason, it can prevent new ones from growing. If you do have cinnamon still on the base of the plant, I'd try and soak it off of there.

The second plant's roots don't look alive at all to me. If they're still firm, there's a chance they're still somewhat functional. Otherwise, they may just be mold-food and you'd be better off cutting them off.

These plants are in better shape than some of the ones I'm trying to save right now. If, in the end, you do lose them, try starting over with a new healthy plant! You'll be able to apply what you've learned from this experience and you'll learn why orchids can be such a joy!

Welcome to the forums, by the way!

Spirit_Scale · #7 10-29-2015, 09:39 PM

Thanks everyone.

So what I'm getting out of this is:
-remove any dead roots (the bigger plant's root indeed was dried up, hanging on by a thread and crumbling when I took a better look at it)
-soak any cinnamon off
-spritz with peroxide (drying off the crown after)
-place in sealed ziploc (no holes) with a wet paper towel in one corner (not touching the plant)
-place in a warm place and wait n see.

Five questions:
-Should I try to place the plant in an upright position in the bag/place the bag a certain way/does it matter?
-Should I replace/re-wet the paper towel every so often (or just let it be?)
-How do I use the kelp max/where do i get it?
-Should I place the plants under any sort of light (even if it's just back by the windowsill?)
-Is there anything else I can do for them?

vjo · #8 10-30-2015, 12:25 AM

Please do NOT put any more cinnamon on the roots. You can put it on the root if you apply it only to the very ends where you cut it. If you put it all over the roots they WILL dry up to nothing pretty quickly.
All you have to do now. is follow Rays advice and have a lot of patience....Good luck...Jean

bil · #9 10-30-2015, 07:13 AM

Orchids are pretty tough I have an Odontoglossum that when I went to take it out of the pot, the roots all stayed in the ppot, leaving me a naked, rootless orchid.

What I did with that was pot it up in fine bark as per normal, water it just like the others and basically forget about it. It's doing fine and throwing new shoots and roots.

Spirit_Scale · #10 10-30-2015, 10:29 AM

I've done as Ray suggested and both plants are now sealed up with paper towel in one corner of the bag.

I am concerned about the heat factor. The warmest part of the house (22-24C) is the darkest part. The coldest part of the house (20C---lower at night) is by the window.

I understand the plants need to be kept warm and shady---but I'm assuming that doesn't mean shade as in indoors and away from the windows, especially in winter.

Should I rig up some CFL's in the warmer part of the house (and maybe add additional heat?
I just want to make sure they've got all they need before I leave them be completely.