need advise for my phal

[Cactuseed]

honestly your phal looks fine.
I've read throught the responses and have to put my 2c in. This is a great board but there are some real blowhards giving questionable advice. Sad but true.
My 2c :
- your phal looks fine. leaves will yellow & die from the bottom up, its normal. If its happening slowly, its probably fine. Your roots look fine in your later pics.
- Sphagnum moss is great medium for phals. Eventually though, Root growth will compact the medium such that the roots can't get air. What to do? Pick all that sphag out of the root ball, wash the sphag, add some perlite and repot.
- Generally not a good idea to leave water in the crown on purpose. You want the surface areas to dry off after watering. Are we actually arguing this?

[bil]

Originally Posted by Cactuseed

honestly your phal looks fine.
I've read throught the responses and have to put my 2c in. This is a great board but there are some real blowhards giving questionable advice. Sad but true.
My 2c :
- your phal looks fine. leaves will yellow & die from the bottom up, its normal. If its happening slowly, its probably fine. Your roots look fine in your later pics.
- Sphagnum moss is great medium for phals. Eventually though, Root growth will compact the medium such that the roots can't get air. What to do? Pick all that sphag out of the root ball, wash the sphag, add some perlite and repot.
- Generally not a good idea to leave water in the crown on purpose. You want the surface areas to dry off after watering. Are we actually arguing this?

Well, unless you can explain how wetting the crown holds water in there any more than mist on a cool morning in the wild wets it.

Me, I try to leave water in the crown, but I just can't do it, because the way the leaves emerge from the crown means the water will drain out pdq.

I'd be obliged if you could tell me how wetting it will induce crown rot. I can see that a sick phal with suffocating roots that has been over exposed to cold might just cross the line with an additional spray of cold water late one evening , but in that case, surely saying don't wet the crown is like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

To my amusement, the one phal I lost to crown rot was one of those that had to overwinter in the garage, the coldest place as there wasn't enough space in the house, and the greenhouse wasn't finished.

BECAUSE it was so cold, they were watered very carefully, and the cowns weren't wetted. Maybe had I wetted the crown, it might have died a week earlier. Who knows?

"Blowhard" Isn't that defined as 'Someone who won't agree with me' ??

I like to joke about the Barkistas vs the Mossites, but I don't do it in a nasty way.

Tell me, since when is calling people Blowhards in the spirit of this board?

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by bil

Nice post, thanks for taking the time. A couple of questions please.

"In winter I don't dare water the crowns." What temp do your orchids go down to??

It is not so much the temperature, but the lack of air movement where my orchids grow over the winter. To answer your question, temperature is in the mid to upper 60s F.

Originally Posted by bil

"water in the crown is likely to evaporate quickly. "
That isn't my query so much. The crowns empty so fast that if you fill the upright ones, and go and gget a paper towel, they are empty.
Where the leaves join the crown, that gap will hold water, no matter how it gets there. So in the wild, cold misty days will wett that junction and trap water there. So why isn't that a problem in the wild?

IMO, not a problem in the wild because (a) the wild plants mostly have the crown pointing semi-horizontally, rather than vertically, (b) better air flow outdoors.

Originally Posted by bil

" most Phal problems seem to be related to rotten roots (packed tight in wet moss) or crown rot. "
See! This is the curse the vile Mossites have to endure for abandoning the true road of the Barkistas!
What I would LOVE is your honest assessment (if you can) of percentage of crown rot cases were potted in moss, or open bark.

I wish I could answer, but to be honest, I'm really not sure. I view the problems as somewhat independent (but I imagine if you did a post mortem on many phals with crown rot, many would also have roots that are in trouble). I have seen Phals with dead crowns but great looking roots, so the don't always coincide.

Originally Posted by bil

"Often the crown rot seems to coincide with the habit lf watering overhead or mist ing, especially late in the day."
Here, I must admit, I am pathological about only watering in the morning.

Indoors, or when cold outdoors, I am too. Less so when my plants are growing outdoors when its warm.

Originally Posted by bil

Like I say, I would love to know what % of crown rot cases would be eliminated if all phals were potted in open bark.

If you decide to keep a count based on posts in the forum, I would be interested to see what you find out.

[bil]

Originally Posted by Orchid Whisperer

It is not so much the temperature, but the lack of air movement where my orchids grow over the winter. To answer your question, temperature is in the mid to upper 60s F.




IMO, not a problem in the wild because (a) the wild plants mostly have the crown pointing semi-horizontally, rather than vertically, (b) better air flow outdoors.



I wish I could answer, but to be honest, I'm really not sure. I view the problems as somewhat independent (but I imagine if you did a post mortem on many phals with crown rot, many would also have roots that are in trouble). I have seen Phals with dead crowns but great looking roots, so the don't always coincide.


Indoors, or when cold outdoors, I am too. Less so when my plants are growing outdoors when its warm.

If you decide to keep a count based on posts in the forum, I would be interested to see what you find out.

1,, 60F is crudely 15C, Not too cold, I was wetting the crowns at that temp last winter.

2. The semi horizontal thing is irrelevant, as I say, the vertical phals don't hold water, where it holds if at all is in the gaps between where the leaf emerges, and what small amounts hold there would be no different from moisture pullled in by capillary action on a cold misty morning. I lost two min max battery powered thermometers before I learnt how far mist and condensation penetrates.

3. Root rot .. would you think that root rot regularly leads to crown rot? I would suspect not as there are lots more phals without roots, than cases of root rot, going by what I see on here..

I suspect, tho like you I have no proof, that cold - or even too much heat would be a real prime cause for the crown dying and rotting.

It would be very interesting if people who did suffer from crown rot could tell us the medium, ie bark or moss, or whatever, but the huge problem is that betwen the types of medium, the frequency of watering, the temperatures, the style of watering and so on, that it would be next to impossible to produce a reliable correllation.

I think we can agree that the closer we are to keeping them in their natural state, the less likely we are to see crown rot. ie an open medium, good ventilation, reliable watering and fertiliser at low levels.

You know, thinking about it, I'm not sure whether or not you can actually leave the leaves wet. Tomorrow, I will pay more attention, but thinking about it, the leaves are pretty waxy, and don't themselves hold water.

Have a look at yours and see what you think please.