Owning an endangered species?

[Fairorchids]

CITES is tricky, with restricted plants, it is important to buy from someone who can sell them legally. AND, you need to keep their invoice, so you can prove the legality of the plant later, in case 'someone' asks.

Prag kovachii grows vefy slowly, so it is likely to remain fairly high priced for some time yet. I suggest that you tey your hand with one or two other Phrags beforge you splurge on kovachii though.

There are two groups:
A. Those that want lots of water.
B. Those that want to stand in 2-3 inches of water.

As a small seedling, kovachii needs more shade than other Phrags. As a mature plant, it should have std fairly bright conditions. I can't remember which water group it belings to at the moment.

[Subrosa]

Owning endangered species in the US is a hodgepodge of laws and the enforcement thereof. The laws are definitely not equally applied, so you should do as much research as possible on the actual species and how the laws are currently applied to it.

[Leafmite]

There are many species that are either no longer found in their native environment or are very rare in their native environment. Many of these can be found for sale. Most of them are legal, grown from seed or cloning but, some, have been wild-collected. You just need to buy from a vendor who has a good reputation and has been in business a long time. If it is something that is newer in 'captivity' or had been lost for a time or previous offerings were virused (and the new ones are not), you had better get some documentation. Orchids are still being illegally collected.

[DeaC]

Try Piping Rock Orchids. I've grown paphs and phrags and need to get better at it. So for now I'm depositing my loose change in the kovachii fund and figure by the time I have enuf I'll have the confidence and smarts to give it a try-they are spectacular!

[bil]

Provided they are genuinely captive raised, II like to see rare plants and animals bred, especially if there is a deal so that some of the money goes back into protecting and improving the habitat they come from.

In some countries this has been done with rare butterflies, and escapees and releases (as part of the deal) have ensured that the wild populations are booming.

[jetflair]

Thanks so much, everyone! Sounds like I'm waiting a few years and if going ahead with it, making darn sure I get lots of paperwork from a reputable vendor like Piping Rock. I would certainly not touch importing with a ten foot pole, and owning a plant is not worth risking legal problems in the slightest.

For a starter paph ....I like besseae, but I understand they too are hard to grow. I'm assuming I should try a hybrid of some kind? Any suggestions?

I'm doing semi-hydro, so water shouldn't be an issue, and I'm in Oregon so cooler temps are a go. I don't have as much humidity as I should.

---------- Post added at 12:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------

Bil, I agree with you 100% and not just with plants and insects but animals as well. I am thrilled that people are propagating them.

I'm just not sure the ownership of an endangered plant by me personally is a good, bad, or neutral thing.

Good: Commercial demand means more breeding and more plants on the planet.

Bad: I probably wouldn't be breeding, and I might kill the plant.

Neutral: For the actual good of the species, probably instead of wondering about owning one at negligible overall impact, I'd donate that sum of money to conservation.

[Fairorchids]

Originally Posted by tropterrarium

CITES only applies for transport across borders. Once it is in the US legally, CITES no longer applies.

INCORRECT. If whatever Dept that is responsible for enforcement of the CITES treaty is alerted to the possibility of illegal plants, they raid the grower. This has happened in the past, and can happen again.

The reason that the likelihood of this is less today, is that we have legal populations of plants that were illegal a few years ago (Phrag kovachii, Paph hangianum, Paph vietnamense, etc.).

And, this spills over into hybrids. Hangianum hybrids are technically still illegal, since legal species plants have not been in the US long enough to have produced legal hybrids. In 2-3 years time, that time line will have played out, and it becomes impossible for the plant 'police' to enforce the ban any longer.

There are still some Paph species that are illegal in the US (but not in Canada & Europe, don't ask me why). Untill legal populations can be established here, these are 100% off limits.

[Subrosa]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

INCORRECT. If whatever Dept that is responsible for enforcement of the CITES treaty is alerted to the possibility of illegal plants, they raid the grower. This has happened in the past, and can happen again.

The reason that the likelihood of this is less today, is that we have legal populations of plants that were illegal a few years ago (Phrag kovachii, Paph hangianum, Paph vietnamense, etc.).

And, this spills over into hybrids. Hangianum hybrids are technically still illegal, since legal species plants have not been in the US long enough to have produced legal hybrids. In 2-3 years time, that time line will have played out, and it becomes impossible for the plant 'police' to enforce the ban any longer.

There are still some Paph species that are illegal in the US (but not in Canada & Europe, don't ask me why). Untill legal populations can be established here, these are 100% off limits.

Want to see something funny? Closely watch the expression of a person empowered to enforce the laws why captive produced specimens of some CITES listed species are available and some aren't. I once asked one
of the powers that be why I can walk into a pet store and buy a captive bred CITES appendix I Blue Throat Macaw as a personal pet with essentially no paperwork besides the check and the receipt, but can't legally obtain a captive bred CITES appendix I Asian Arowana unless it's for scientific or public display purposes. If the gentleman wasn't carrying a gun his abject ignorance and confusion over his own authority and responsibilities would have made me laugh in his face.

[Leafmite]

I just think of all the Angraecums and other orchids that are being erased from Madagascar. Many of them aren't even easy to find for sale or in collections and then you worry about the ones that are available...if they will be kept the same or bred to look 'better'.

[Fairorchids]

Originally Posted by Leafmite

I just think of all the Angraecums and other orchids that are being erased from Madagascar. Many of them aren't even easy to find for sale or in collections and then you worry about the ones that are available...if they will be kept the same or bred to look 'better'.

That is a whole different issue, and worth debating. Man has always tried to improve upon plants (crops) and domesticated animals by breeding the superior individuals. In some cases this has led to current progeny vastly different from their ancestors.

If you are trying to preserve what mother nature produced, it is a horrible abomination.

If you are trying to feed a population that is growing almost out of control, that is an admirable effort.

If a plant is extinct in nature due to habitat destruction, is it wrong to interbreed two different populations, in an effort to:
a. Create more genetic diversity.
b. Possibly make plants easier to grow 'in captivity'.

Who are we to judge any of these views?