Flimsy phal leaves and other questions.

[Brownthumb10]

I have posted a few times about my phal but have another question. Here are my previous posts so you can have a little background:
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...eeds-help.html
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...om-spikes.html
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...hals-leaf.html
So my question is, the leaves are really 'flimsy' not 'stiff' like the original leaves. Also, the new growth seems to be stalled, nothing is happening. Part of me thinks I need to repot it to see what's going on with the roots and get it in a smaller pot. But I am scared that I will kill it since everything went downhill when I repotted it last time. Thoughts?
There are sentimental reason I really don't want to give up on this plant. It was gorgeous when I first got it and I would love to get it back to its former glory. Thanks!

[Optimist]

it might take a year or more for recovery. Phals grow one leaf per year. Its not like you get an entire tree worth of leaves in three months. An old floppy leaf will not regain its stiffness. A new leaf will need to grow. The leaf problem is really a root problem. The plant is self cannibalizing the stored energy (think fat) that made the leaves nice and stiff and succulent. It was suddenly moved into a medium it could not handle. It was used to living in moss. The roots suffered trauma, and will have to re grow. The plant has gone into something like hibernation. About the only way I imagine you can trick it into growth is to raise the light level. Repot it into spagham moss. I have lost a lot of phals because I followed the advice to repot immedietly. Let me tell you, this advice is contrary to what every culture sheet from any reputable orchid organization says. The actual advice is to either wait till it is out of bloom, or cut the flower spike off. Also, don't repot until there is growth beginning. Some say roots, I say a new leaf. Also, the amount of fertilizer suggested is huge. One teaspoon to a gallon will burn the roots. Weakly weakly might be a good idea, but you need to get clear on what that means, exactly. I personally like weakly once a month. About the roots: these are air plants. They breath through their roots. But also their roots are created from cells that adapt to their culture. If a plant begins in spagham moss you need to gently introduce a new medium. When you see repotting imeditly into bark medium, that is for plants that initially came from the nursery in bark medium. Phals are often mass produced in Taiwan these days and they come in moss. If you buy a phal in bark, then transplanting it to bark is a given. If it comes in moss, you need to transplant it into moss. You can certainly loosen the moss, and add some bark chips to add drainage to the pot.

This is only an opinion, of course. But by using this advice myself, I am starting to not kill phals.

[Connie M]

So could you use a mixture of both when you repot? I am fairly new and had been confused as to why some of my orchids had all moss and some bark. I have repotted a few and hope I haven't messed them up

[Orchid Whisperer]

Brownthumb10, although I agree with you that it is over-potted, I think I would leave it alone for now, and not re-pot. Maybe try re-potting again in a year?

FWIW, I always re-pot any Phal. I buy from the sphagnum they are grown/produced in, and into a coarse medium such as bark. This is based on 30+ years of trial and error (emphasis on the error). I think potting it into the bark was a good move on your part.

One thing you might want to try: if you can get a bamboo skewer (same type you would use to make kabobs on the grill), gently poke one of those down into the bark as deep as you can. Leave that permanently in place in the pot. When you think the plant needs water, pull that skewer up an inch or two,see if it is damp, then push back into the bark. If the skewer is damp, don't water. If dry, water very thoroughly at the sink, water flooding through the pot. Keep doing this each time you water, you will eventually develop a sense of how often to water that plant in that medium and pot. Goal with watering for Phals is to provide water when the bark is nearly dry, but still just slightly moist.

[lotis146]

With my little experience I have also seen Phals suffer a bit of shock when changing medium - in my case from moss to coconut coir or moss/bark/coir mix - though I did not lose the plant per se just some flowers but then they were okay.

That said I'm with Orchid Whisperer to let the thing be for a bit. I've under-watered a Phal before ever taking real interest in Orchids (that's what brought me here) and the first time its wilted leaves recovered 100%. Then I managed to under-water AGAIN, around which time two keikis developed, but its leaves have not fully recovered their vigor. HOWEVER, I've only been a member here 2 months and from coming here, learning, and repotting this Phal some of the leaves have become more firm and less wrinkled however the youngest/newest has not. I too was concerned that the leaves weren't improving but eventually it started growing new roots and showed some leaf improvement but not 100%.

It's easy as a beginner to want to baby the plants, always feeling like you need to do something to them but I've learned that the very nature of these plants require that we be far more patient than we probably want to be. So I too think just keep an eye on it and make sure it's getting enough water.

Good luck.

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------

Another thing, when I water mine I typically like to soak them for 15-20 minutes in a pot without holes of course. Then I pull it out and let all the water drain out. Most of the time my final step is to pour fertilizer solution over the medium at this point letting it also run out. My latest water I let them soak in water/feed solution. We'll see about that, but soaking in just water has done well for my plants so far it seems at least.

[Optimist]

Originally Posted by Connie M

So could you use a mixture of both when you repot? I am fairly new and had been confused as to why some of my orchids had all moss and some bark. I have repotted a few and hope I haven't messed them up

Yes, of course you can. My major assertion is that people need to repot into similarly water retaining and draining mediums, whether the plant came in moss or in chunky bark. A mixture is good.

One thing that few beginners see is that their orchid, if a phal, and if from walmart/lowes, is given optimum growing conditions, fake day and night schedual, steroids, extra CO2, and is often tricked into blooming at an unnatural time. The moss in the tight package signifies that it has been in an overseas shipping container etc, and has not been watered since it left Taiwan. Further, the steroids and growth hormones it has been getting have changed it from a plant that takes 5 years to blooming size, to one that takes 2 years. When you take it away from all of that, it is going from the land of plenty to an environment that is tremendously difficult for it. The light in houses is much less than people think. It is not misted every hour, or what have you.


A way to avoid this is not to buy a mass produced phal. Another way is to change its culture very little, and make smaller changes over a longer period of time.