by joe I think ive cracked it, I am so astatic and proud of myself, my family think im nuts I have just had a look with a magnifying lens at my jars and I can see there are little balls of seeds all over and underneath the agar with little shoots... I was fretting that I couldn't see anything happening, i posted questions out a few days ago, so thanks to all those who answered me with there knowledge.. I just thought id let you know as im so happy with myself.