Help with a sorry looking Phal

[dawnchorus]

Hello all,

I mentioned a little while ago I had a new and slightly sad orchid. It has now started dropping petals. It has plenty of unopened buds on it, I don't want to lose them if I can help it. I have had it about 2/3 weeks and watered it once but I think it was already a bit over watered so i'm trying to give it a little break. Any ideas?

I've attached some photos for your info

Many thanks everyone. You're all turning out to be fantastically useful.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Hello DC

Watered only once in 2 to 3 weeks? That is definitely underwatered!

The orchid appears to be potted in a bark mix. That is good. There is an inner plastic pot, and that is set inside of some type of decorative glass container ("cache pot").
1. Do both the plastic pot and the cache pot have drainage holes? They should.
2. If the cache pot has no drainage hole, when you water, be sure to water the plant in the plastic pot only. If there is an air gap between the plastic and cache pot, it is OK to continue using the cache pot, once the medium has completely drained. If there is no gap between the two pots, you should either not use the cache pot, or consider finding a larger one.

A Phal will typically need water 2 to 3 times a week if potted in coarse bark (pieces 1 - 2 cm across). Finer potting materials will require water less often. In a clear plastic pot, you can judge if water is needed by looking through the side of the pot. If there is much condensation inside the pot, wait before watering. If there is very little condensation visible, go ahead and water. In a clear pot, you should see healthy green roots throughout the pot. When you water, take it to the sink, run a LOT of water through the bark, let it drain. Try to keep water out of the center (crown) of the plant to avoid problems with leaf and crown rot.

The leaves and visible roots look fairly healthy. I would check the health of the roots through the sides of the plastic pot. The one exception is the leaf in your orchid3.jpg picture, which shows some yellowing along the mid-rib of the leaf. Is there some mechanical damage on that leaf? I would keep an eye on that leaf for changes in appearance.

I think you will do fine with this plant, once you get into a routine regarding the care it needs. Good luck!

[Optimist]

I am still a beginner as well but what I would do is cut it out of that shrink wrap plastic pot so the roots can breath some more and water it much more often. Keeping the clear plastic pot is fine and recommended, but I see it is in two pots. What is the mixture? If it is spagham moss, you might need to change that. (I have re-potted multiple times with a flower spike and nothing ever happened and I didn't lose the flowers, so I don't know what the rule about not re-potting while in spike is all about. )

One of my beginner mistakes has been to assume that the culture care advice I see on the web is one size fits all. The biggest mistake I have made is suffocating the roots and not watering enough (letting it all drain out). A phal with flowers needs a lot of humidity. A flowering or growing phal needs more humidity than when it is resting. If it has floppy leaves, (not stiff) then it is using the moisture in the leaves, not in the roots. I guess I would say put it on a pan of water and rocks, or get a cool air humidifier for that part of the room.


That's about all I know, but like I said, I am a beginner.

[Bill U.]

I agree with all of the advice given to you by OW.

In addition to giving this phal much more water- if you are finding that the middle of the pot is not drying out but the top "air roots" are becoming extremely dessicated, you can also give them a slight spritz during the day to help keep those air roots hydrated while the ones in the middle of the pot are still working on soaking up that water from the middle and drying out.

As your phal puts out more roots in your growing conditions, the new roots will adapt to the general culture conditions it is receiving- air roots will need less water/spritzing if they grow accustomed to being in slightly drier environments, etc. *The basis of why it is recommended that you repot when new root growth is occuring- to make sure that the new roots are going to be able to deal with new conditions and sustain the plant during the transition.

With increased watering, it may perk up some

[LovePhals]

Just b/c it was over watered at one time doesn't mean you should under water now, just give it normal water, like 7 to 10 days this time of year (I don't water as much as orchid whisperer), of course depending on your growing medium. Whatever works for you, but when the medium is drying. The air roots definitely look dried out. The blooms won't hold without the plant getting moisture.

[dawnchorus]

Oh gosh! I feel awful now. I was always told to only water my Orchids every 7-10 days and when I got this one it was soggy!

I have given it a good water now and I will keep an eye on it but the blooms still seem to be wilting at the moment and a couple of the buds have gone red.. I don't know what that means unfortunately

oh well. I will do my best. Thank you for your help all!

[james mickelso]

Not to disagree here but the roots under the media don't "soak" up anything. Spraying the roots that are growing above the media is a great way to help but the damage being caused by the stale situation under the media will still kill the plant. Orchids are epiphytes. They grow attached to tree trunks and branches. They live in a wet/dry environment. Their roots get wet, then they dry out. Most importantly they get lots and lots of air. In a soggy condition, which is where we find most of our orchids, their roots don't get the air flow that they need and fungus/molds/bacteria/virus start to attack them and they decline. So we get them home and feel that they need water because the top of the media feels dry and we drown them. Or we don't water and yet they succumb to the stale wet conditions already inside the pot. What we see in the store is an orchid that has been grown in a very warm, airy, well lit environment watered with good clean water. By the time they reach us they usually have started to decline already but because they are so slow growing we don't see it. If you are very careful you can take this plant out of it's current potting situation and repot it into better media without losing the buds. But if they are already turning red.....sorry. Just try to save the plant for next blooming season.

[dawnchorus]

Originally Posted by james mickelso

Not to disagree here but the roots under the media don't "soak" up anything. Spraying the roots that are growing above the media is a great way to help but the damage being caused by the stale situation under the media will still kill the plant. Orchids are epiphytes. They grow attached to tree trunks and branches. They live in a wet/dry environment. Their roots get wet, then they dry out. Most importantly they get lots and lots of air. In a soggy condition, which is where we find most of our orchids, their roots don't get the air flow that they need and fungus/molds/bacteria/virus start to attack them and they decline. So we get them home and feel that they need water because the top of the media feels dry and we drown them. Or we don't water and yet they succumb to the stale wet conditions already inside the pot. What we see in the store is an orchid that has been grown in a very warm, airy, well lit environment watered with good clean water. By the time they reach us they usually have started to decline already but because they are so slow growing we don't see it. If you are very careful you can take this plant out of it's current potting situation and repot it into better media without losing the buds. But if they are already turning red.....sorry. Just try to save the plant for next blooming season.

Now i'm getting confused as to how to help this phal.

[Bill U.]

DC,

I think what James was correcting was my phrasing in my previous post. He is correct that orchid roots below the surface media do not act as sponges that will soak up any and all moisture from the media over time. I also believe that he was trying to emphasize the need for your roots to have some air flow to help dry out- as this is part of their natural life cycle in the wild: wet to dry, over and over again.

This all being said, we must ask what your phal is potted in. If it is coarse bark mixture, look to see if the pieces of bark are still quite soggy some days after watering. If this is the case, you may have some bark that is decomposing and becoming a "stale media". If you have stale media, it would be best to carefully repot into fresh bark media.

With fresh media or not, it is important that your phal has air flow around the roots (not that you need to put a fan directly on the roots), but that it needs to be a light and airy mixture that is not overly compacted or sitting directly on the bottom of a cache pot if the only drainage holes are on the bottom of the "grow pot".

Over- and under-watering both have issues associated with them, but neither of them are going to help your phal keep it's blooms longer.

As a good security measure, many members here on OB use the "skewer method" to help determine when they need to water. This method involves taking a bamboo skewer (nothing special, just something like you could use for a shish kabob) and placing it in the center of the pot so that the tip gets to the very middle of the root ball (where moisture tends to accumulate the most). When first starting to use this method, give it a thorough watering and then check the skewer every day to see if the part from the middle is damp. Don't water until the tip is just barely damp, basically dry (some wait until the tip is dry). After it is dry, water as usual. *Make sure that you are putting the skewer back in the same place so you are not constantly stabbing roots*. After having a few cycles, you should start to get an idea of when your phal needs to be watered (so you don't necessarily have to check it every day- you just watered -> check it 3 days later to see if it has started to dry out).

Newer bark will tend to not hold as much water and dry out faster, where as older bark will hold water and dry more slowly. **There are also significant differences in timing/water absorption when the phal is putting on new growth or if temperatures increase.

Does this help?

[dawnchorus]

Originally Posted by Bill U.

DC,

I think what James was correcting was my phrasing in my previous post. He is correct that orchid roots below the surface media do not act as sponges that will soak up any and all moisture from the media over time. I also believe that he was trying to emphasize the need for your roots to have some air flow to help dry out- as this is part of their natural life cycle in the wild: wet to dry, over and over again.

This all being said, we must ask what your phal is potted in. If it is coarse bark mixture, look to see if the pieces of bark are still quite soggy some days after watering. If this is the case, you may have some bark that is decomposing and becoming a "stale media". If you have stale media, it would be best to carefully repot into fresh bark media.

With fresh media or not, it is important that your phal has air flow around the roots (not that you need to put a fan directly on the roots), but that it needs to be a light and airy mixture that is not overly compacted or sitting directly on the bottom of a cache pot if the only drainage holes are on the bottom of the "grow pot".

Over- and under-watering both have issues associated with them, but neither of them are going to help your phal keep it's blooms longer.

As a good security measure, many members here on OB use the "skewer method" to help determine when they need to water. This method involves taking a bamboo skewer (nothing special, just something like you could use for a shish kabob) and placing it in the center of the pot so that the tip gets to the very middle of the root ball (where moisture tends to accumulate the most). When first starting to use this method, give it a thorough watering and then check the skewer every day to see if the part from the middle is damp. Don't water until the tip is just barely damp, basically dry (some wait until the tip is dry). After it is dry, water as usual. *Make sure that you are putting the skewer back in the same place so you are not constantly stabbing roots*. After having a few cycles, you should start to get an idea of when your phal needs to be watered (so you don't necessarily have to check it every day- you just watered -> check it 3 days later to see if it has started to dry out).

Newer bark will tend to not hold as much water and dry out faster, where as older bark will hold water and dry more slowly. **There are also significant differences in timing/water absorption when the phal is putting on new growth or if temperatures increase.

Does this help?

I think so. I will try and explore the bark and possibly take photos if i get confused and see what sort of state it is in. The bamboo is a definite help I will try and find some soon. When I water my orchids I take them out of the ceramic or glass vases and let the water run through. I then leave them out for an hour or so before putting them back in.